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> Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?
Gnostic Bishop
post Apr 11, 2016, 04:53 AM
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Is the need of salvation an evil lie from religions?

Some religions like Christianity and Islam teach that people are condemned by God and that we have to work to gain salvation. God created us ill, and orders us to be well, on pain of tremendous eternal torture and eventual death. This teaching follows the one where we are told that God is unknowable, unfathomable and works in mysterious ways. This makes the notions of condemnation and the need for salvation obvious lies.

Gnostic Christianity does not use this type of carrot and stick motivation in its theology. We are Universalists and only see a heaven, no hell. We think God too good a creator to ever have to condemn anyone. Our God is a winner, not the loser God that Christianity has invented. All the Gods are myths created to help us reach our highest human potential and are only tools to open our inner eye. Our single eye as Jesus calls it.

How we can forgive ourselves is that as Universalists, we have tied righteousness to equality. The logic trail from there says that if God is to punish anyone, he would have to punish everyone as everyone contributes to what we all are.

For instance. If God were to punish Hitler, he would have to revue what made Hitler what he ended up being. God would follow his time line and see perhaps that his parents spanked him and God would know what we know today, that spanking creates resentment and a delinquent attitude. That beginning would see Hitler's parents setting his mindset which eventually flowered into his tyrannical nature. So to be just, God would automatically have to punish Hitler's parents. That same logic would apply to everyone who contributed or facilitated Hitler's rise to infamy.

So for you and me to blame just ourselves for what we are would be quite unjust. This is not to say that we hold no responsibility for our actions, just not all of them.

Do you agree that the need of Salvation promoted by religions is an evil lie?

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DL
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Joesus
post Apr 11, 2016, 07:37 AM
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Religion is based on beliefs.
for example:
QUOTE(Gnostic Bishop @ Apr 11, 2016, 01:16 PM) *

We believe that those laws and rules, as Jesus said, are found in our minds/hearts. I use the following to try to illustrate this notion. A bit of history and then a mindset and method to do what I promote.
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DL

Perhaps you should ask yourself "what is evil?" Is it real or simply a belief?
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Gnostic Bishop
post Apr 11, 2016, 12:20 PM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ Apr 11, 2016, 07:37 AM) *

Religion is based on beliefs.
for example:
QUOTE(Gnostic Bishop @ Apr 11, 2016, 01:16 PM) *

We believe that those laws and rules, as Jesus said, are found in our minds/hearts. I use the following to try to illustrate this notion. A bit of history and then a mindset and method to do what I promote.
Regards
DL

Perhaps you should ask yourself "what is evil?" Is it real or simply a belief?


Evil is an adjective. Not a noun.

Many things are described evil but no thing in and of itself is evil.

Mind you, I can screw up in 3 languages and English is not my mother tongue.

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DL
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Joesus
post Apr 11, 2016, 03:03 PM
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QUOTE(Gnostic Bishop @ Apr 11, 2016, 08:20 PM) *


Evil is an adjective. Not a noun.

Many things are described evil but no thing in and of itself is evil.

Kinda answers the question:
QUOTE
Do you agree that the need of Salvation promoted by religions is an evil lie?

Doesn't it?
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Gnostic Bishop
post Apr 11, 2016, 03:50 PM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ Apr 11, 2016, 03:03 PM) *

QUOTE(Gnostic Bishop @ Apr 11, 2016, 08:20 PM) *


Evil is an adjective. Not a noun.

Many things are described evil but no thing in and of itself is evil.

Kinda answers the question:
QUOTE
Do you agree that the need of Salvation promoted by religions is an evil lie?

Doesn't it?


Sorry?

I do not understand your response.

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DL
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Joesus
post Apr 11, 2016, 07:32 PM
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I guess you don't.
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Mr Kaffeine
post May 23, 2016, 08:47 AM
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No, the need for salvation is not a lie from evil. It used to be a way of life for most people before the information age. People would work hard and earn salvation by living a good life, repenting whenever they went astray. The information age, (most likely induced by evil) sought knowledge in all things so it could find a way to find salvation and overall stop people from making the thought of being able to win at life.

Information age also has stopped people from critically thinking and only finding out new things, letting the higher payroll deal with interpretation which is dangerous.

About your other comments, the last thing you ever want to do is judge yourself or others. How could you judge yourself as a human, and expect the same treatment from God? The beauty here is, God judges righteously. We do not. So next time you ever find yourself being judged by someone, or you find yourself judging someone, stop and ask yourself is this how you would want God to judge you?

Naw, we want to see the best in people so that everyone has an equal opportunity. There are those who have already made their decisions to stay on this world forever (such as those who are trying to find a way to be immortal through computers and what not), but let us not point out their flaws.

I honestly think that God wants everyone to be saved through salvation, and the Word says that the end of time will not come until everyone hears the joy of saving, Jesus Christ. Every religion is a little different, but the only lie that is trying to be instilled by deception, inception, lies, tic-for-tat, is that you are not good enough for salvation.

Don't listen. Be blessed that you have had the opportunity to hear the better side of life and don't stray from it.
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Joesus
post May 24, 2016, 06:52 AM
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QUOTE(Mr Kaffeine @ May 23, 2016, 04:47 PM) *

How could you judge yourself as a human, and expect the same treatment from God? The beauty here is, God judges righteously. We do not. So next time you ever find yourself being judged by someone, or you find yourself judging someone, stop and ask yourself is this how you would want God to judge you?

Why would you want a God that judges you at all?
If God was THE creator, what would God say about his or her own creation that would be tangible to human understanding as a judgment? "Yer doing great because I created you to be just as you are".. or "yer doing everything wrong because that is not what I created you to do. I gave you free will but that doesn't mean I want you to do anything on yer own and or whatever is against my will and not designed into your abilities"..or "I wrote everything in a book that was deciphered by men who think they judge me correctly so use it as THE manual for human being.."


QUOTE(Mr Kaffeine @ May 23, 2016, 04:47 PM) *

Naw, we want to see the best in people so that everyone has an equal opportunity. There are those who have already made their decisions to stay on this world forever (such as those who are trying to find a way to be immortal through computers and what not), but let us not point out their flaws.

You kinda did point out a flaw, based on your own judgments of right and wrong action. What is intended by God and what isn't. You must have a direct link to God's thoughts and desires as to what the world should or shouldn't look like.

QUOTE(Mr Kaffeine @ May 23, 2016, 04:47 PM) *

I honestly think that God wants everyone to be saved through salvation, and the Word says that the end of time will not come until everyone hears the joy of saving, Jesus Christ.

Thanks for your honesty, but honestly... what makes you think your honesty has anything to do with what is real. You already stated that man has no idea of judgment as God judges because God judges righteously and man doesn't. Whatever is it that can counter that statement to make it different for you?

QUOTE(Mr Kaffeine @ May 23, 2016, 04:47 PM) *
Every religion is a little different, but the only lie that is trying to be instilled by deception, inception, lies, tic-for-tat, is that you are not good enough for salvation.

Every religion is the same, being that it is handed down thru belief as a belief and is constantly being revised and changed within the beliefs of those that honestly think they know better than another.
Sin is defined as it is believed to be by those who want to judge righteously, but you say that cannot happen. So who really needs to be saved, and saved from what? It would seem one thing is consistent throughout religion, and that is that God created the world and man, and every religion complains how man and the world is in need of change. The only obvious conclusion is that God in his or her shortcomings failed to create anything that is without a need to change or perfect, due to the inherent flaws resulting from Gods failure to create anything that is without sin. Well except for the animals and children (according to religious interpretation of the bible). Children are perfect regardless of whether they grow up to become failures in the eyes of religion.
QUOTE(Mr Kaffeine @ May 23, 2016, 04:47 PM) *

Don't listen. Be blessed that you have had the opportunity to hear the better side of life and don't stray from it.

Of course the better side of life is being described by those who WANT to be as righteous as God in their judgment and determination, but really can't. So really, there is no handbook or religion, or man that can be saved since Man in general is not God and cannot make a clear determination as to what is Godlike or Godly except within the limits of religious belief and determination.
So now as it has always been. Man will use its/his/her determination to attempt tp control and whip the masses into shape by serving the masses with priests who favor small boys in a dark room, and ridicule those who do not belong to their particular club.., condemning the lesser in favor of lining the faithful up in a line to give to the righteous who will run the world, until the end of times when God finally decides to come out of hiding and take over for them and their cause. (Just like Jesus did for the masses when they wanted him to run their armies and subdue Caesar, during his lifetime). tongue.gif rolleyes.gif cool.gif wink.gif
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