BrainMeta'   Connectomics'  

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

2 Pages V  1 2 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> On Religion
maximus242
post May 24, 2007, 01:51 AM
Post #1


God
******

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 1755
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Member No.: 4768



This is getting rediculous, as I look through the board I see utter disregard for other peoples beliefs. We all have a right to believe what we want to believe and to think what we want to think. It's not fair to simply bully those with religious beliefs.

Whether or not you agree with someones beliefs doesnt give you the right to completely and blatantly disrespect those beliefs.

Now im talking about the forum as a whole. How can we expect to get anywhere in expanding our minds by closing them off and bullying anyone who disagrees with the atheist perspective.

This should NOT be a left versus right argument, we are all here to better develop our understanding, to learn and to grow. Not to turn into some mob that bashes anyone who has religious beliefs, this is Brain-Meta not nazi Germany.

Debating and questioning is great, but seriously I am getting concerned with the utter disregard for beliefs that is going on across the forum.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Jellybean2
post May 24, 2007, 04:58 AM
Post #2


Awakening
***

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 117
Joined: May 22, 2007
From: Tennesee
Member No.: 11219



i am in agreement... i have my standards and convictions...but i am not going to force what ibelieve on anyone.
just because I believe in God doesn't make me weak minded .... i enjoy a good theological conversation and seeing other people's sides....but i don't bash athiest....just state my opinion.... *shrugs*
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Hey Hey
post May 24, 2007, 06:45 AM
Post #3


Supreme God
*******

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 7766
Joined: Dec 31, 2003
Member No.: 845



Discussions can be tough ... especially when you have no evidence to fall back on.

(Edited: sorry in my enthusiasm I originally omitted the word "no")
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Technologist
post May 24, 2007, 07:05 AM
Post #4


Awakening
***

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 213
Joined: Dec 07, 2006
From: NYC
Member No.: 6361



Freedom of thought and freedom of belief are a two way street. Untenable religious notions shouldn't be coddled or considered a legitimate point of view. The obvious contradictions and short comings of a belief structure should be exposed. It's in everyone's best interest that this is the case.

It is possible for one side to be simply wrong. ~ Richard Dawkins
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Lindsay
post May 24, 2007, 07:15 AM
Post #5


God
******

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 1730
Joined: Feb 07, 2006
From: Markham (Thornhill), part of the greater Toronto area, the GTA, just north of Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Member No.: 4838



QUOTE(Technologist @ May 24, 2007, 07:05 AM) *

Freedom of thought and freedom of belief are a two way street. Untenable religious notions shouldn't be coddled or considered a legitimate point of view. The obvious contradictions and short comings of a belief structure should be exposed. It's in everyone's best interest that this is the case.

It is possible for one side to be simply wrong. ~ Richard Dawkins
"The obvious contradictions and short comings of a belief structure should be exposed." What should we do with our obvious biases? For example, for monotheists the belief in a personal God who hears and answers prayers is a very tenable belief. It is a very legimate point of view. Are you inferring that atheists have no biases?
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Jellybean2
post May 24, 2007, 07:22 AM
Post #6


Awakening
***

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 117
Joined: May 22, 2007
From: Tennesee
Member No.: 11219



QUOTE(Hey Hey @ May 24, 2007, 10:45 AM) *

Discussions can be tough ... especially when you have evidence to fall back on.



that is true...lol... I find that the problem is.. people just take what they have heard and decide it is fact. They have no reason and rarely know the fundementals of what they believe. People should learn not to debate what they do not know or really understand.
*waiting for people to start throwing rocks*
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Joesus
post May 24, 2007, 07:48 AM
Post #7


Supreme God
*******

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 4043
Joined: Sep 26, 2003
From: nowhere and everywhere
Member No.: 601



Are we there yet Are we there yet Are we there yet Are we there yet Are we there yet Are we there yet Are we there yet Are we there yet.
Children when they are growing up and can't figure out why things aren't meeting their immediate expectations seem to take on the reasoning of their predecessors/parents/society etc etc.

It's sometimes difficult to stand back and allow one to make their own discoveries without interfering and projecting ones own beliefs to try and shore up the belief walls one more time. Anytime the universe seems to expand beyond ones own beliefs it threatens the ego and the ego fights to maintain everything it has built for fear of fading away and having nothing to stand on.
True spirituality threatens the ego because no thing is permanent other than the absolute which cannot be contained. Tho it can be spoken of in accord with ones own experience the need to protect ones personal experience often leads again to the condemnation of difference to protect the individual experience and all related perspectives.

You can't stop the choice to freely think and or take a position. The nature of the personal reality prevents interference with this even tho some believe that a mind can be influenced. The universe is still and always will be a reflection of ones desires and will. What seems to be happening to the individual is concocted by the individual before it happens.
This is the meaning of Man being created in Gods image. Man does create his own reality. Man cannot be contained simply within the meatbag, his thoughts extend beyond any experience and his consciousness beyond the body and experience. This is what the ego cannot accept and where the ego cannot maintain control. The ego would have to voluntarily surrender itself to something greater than that which it can covet and it will die first either through atrophy as conscious free will abandons concepts or through ignorance and the physical death of the body.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Technologist
post May 24, 2007, 08:08 AM
Post #8


Awakening
***

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 213
Joined: Dec 07, 2006
From: NYC
Member No.: 6361



QUOTE
For example, for monotheists the belief in a personal God who hears and answers prayers is a very tenable belief. It is a very legimate point of view.


That's a totally untenable position. There is absolutely ZERO empirical evidence for the power of prayer.

And if there is a loving, caring personal God, then why do children get leukemia? Oh yeah, I forgot, it part of "God's plan". I guess we should believe that God bestowed suffering on man so that he would be appreciated? I've already heard this one. As those of us who have delved into evolutionary psychology are already aware, religious memeplexs are optimally evolved to be extremely virulent and virtually impossible to cleanse from the human mind. Everything must be reconciled with its preexisting belief structure so that it can maintain its boiler plate sense of meaning. Rationality be damned. Occam's Razor be damned. Religious believers believe what they believe and nothing can change that, because to change that would be the death of them and their trivial existence in fairy tale land. Clearly, a god who stands by passively and allows infants and small children to writhe in agony as the cancer slowly eats them alive from the inside is anything but loving and caring. They say that dying from bone cancer is one of the most excruciating deaths imaginable. And why would these babies and children deserve to die in such an agonizing way? What sins could they have committed when they've barely lived any life at all? No, I don't give a damn what kind of convoluted ass backwards logic they try to spin to justify their delusions, this is for myself and all rationalists DIRECT EVIDENCE that a "loving caring God" does not exist.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Hey Hey
post May 24, 2007, 08:12 AM
Post #9


Supreme God
*******

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 7766
Joined: Dec 31, 2003
Member No.: 845



QUOTE(Jellybean2 @ May 24, 2007, 04:22 PM) *

QUOTE(Hey Hey @ May 24, 2007, 10:45 AM) *

Discussions can be tough ... especially when you have evidence to fall back on.



that is true...lol... I find that the problem is.. people just take what they have heard and decide it is fact. They have no reason and rarely know the fundementals of what they believe. People should learn not to debate what they do not know or really understand.
*waiting for people to start throwing rocks*

You will note above that I have edited my original post to include the word "no" that I unfortunately omitted due to a slip by my aging brain.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Hey Hey
post May 24, 2007, 08:16 AM
Post #10


Supreme God
*******

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 7766
Joined: Dec 31, 2003
Member No.: 845



QUOTE(Jellybean2 @ May 24, 2007, 04:22 PM) *

QUOTE(Hey Hey @ May 24, 2007, 10:45 AM) *

Discussions can be tough ... especially when you have evidence to fall back on.



that is true...lol... I find that the problem is.. people just take what they have heard and decide it is fact. They have no reason and rarely know the fundementals of what they believe. People should learn not to debate what they do not know or really understand.
*waiting for people to start throwing rocks*

Following my first 20 years in a religious environment (including the actual practice and teaching within a church), and then a further 33 years in a scientific role (including experimental laboratory investigations and research) I feel that I have actually experienced practically much of what I discuss and debate, rather than simply uptaking what others might have spouted. How about you?
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Culture
post May 24, 2007, 08:18 AM
Post #11


Overlord
****

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 355
Joined: Jan 11, 2006
From: all over the place
Member No.: 4711



QUOTE(maximus242 @ May 24, 2007, 01:51 AM) *

This is getting rediculous, as I look through the board I see utter disregard for other peoples beliefs. We all have a right to believe what we want to believe and to think what we want to think. It's not fair to simply bully those with religious beliefs.

Whether or not you agree with someones beliefs doesnt give you the right to completely and blatantly disrespect those beliefs.

Now im talking about the forum as a whole. How can we expect to get anywhere in expanding our minds by closing them off and bullying anyone who disagrees with the atheist perspective.

This should NOT be a left versus right argument, we are all here to better develop our understanding, to learn and to grow. Not to turn into some mob that bashes anyone who has religious beliefs, this is Brain-Meta not nazi Germany.

Debating and questioning is great, but seriously I am getting concerned with the utter disregard for beliefs that is going on across the forum.


Maximus your intentions are good. I have not seen bullying, I have however seen invalid arguments made and these arguments challenged. Surely the forum here exists to challenge and debate our views, minds and beliefs. I do not see why religion should be shielded from scrutiny.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Hey Hey
post May 24, 2007, 08:23 AM
Post #12


Supreme God
*******

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 7766
Joined: Dec 31, 2003
Member No.: 845



QUOTE(Culture @ May 24, 2007, 05:18 PM) *
Maximus your intentions are good.
Or, maybe in desperation, going for the sympathy vote?
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Joesus
post May 24, 2007, 09:49 AM
Post #13


Supreme God
*******

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 4043
Joined: Sep 26, 2003
From: nowhere and everywhere
Member No.: 601



QUOTE
That's a totally untenable position. There is absolutely ZERO empirical evidence for the power of prayer.

Prayer is a type of thought or thinking.

How does our mind make us sick? There has been some fascinating research over the past several years which shows just how closely connected our minds are to our bodies: our habitual thoughts determine the state of our health and even our longevity.
One of the earliest and most interesting studies was performed on some rabbits at Ohio University in the seventies.
The scientists were attempting to prove the relationship between a toxic, high cholesterol diet and hardening of the arteries. They thought that if they fed the rabbits' high cholesterol food, they should logically develop high blood pressure, hardening of the arteries and the other symptoms we have learned to associate with heart disease, which is still the largest killer in the Western world. The experiment was going along very well, with most of the bunnies developing the expected symptoms, except for one group of rabbits that were not having the expected results. The scientists just couldn't understand it -- they were feeding the rabbits in this group the same high cholesterol food, but the rabbits just weren't developing any of the predicted symptoms. No high blood pressure. No hardening of the arteries. No hypertension. Nothing.

Fortunately for the study, and unfortunately for the rabbits, the technician who was feeding that particular group of rabbits fell ill. Almost immediately, her rabbits started developing the expected symptoms! Naturally the scientists were curious as to why and asked her what she had done differently. "Why nothing," she said, "I fed the rabbits the food as you told me to. I took them out of their cages, held them, stroked them, and sang to them, fed them. Wasn't this right?"

It was the same food, but the rabbits' minds turned the high cholesterol food into other channels, which protected their health! The scientists were amazed. They thought they were studying hardening of the arteries; they were really studying the effects of love.
They tried this over and over again and found that rabbits that were loved simply wouldn't fall ill as readily. Isn't this amazing? And this was just rabbits, not even people! How can love change the effect of food? So the moral is: if you're going to eat Big Macs, sit on your boyfriend's/girlfriend's lap while you're eating it.

We do exactly the same thing. Our minds control our bodies. You've probably heard of the placebo effect? 30% of patients can be given a chalk tablet and told that they will get well and they do get well. There is also a nocebo effect. A physician tells a patient, "I'm very sorry to tell you, Mrs. Jones, but your breast cancer has metastasized throughout your internal organs; you'll be dead in six weeks." If Mrs. Jones believes her doctor, her body will respond and kill her.

For decades, surgeons assumed that if you were unconscious during surgery, it didn't matter what was said in the operating room. But it was found that what is said affects the likelihood of recovery! If they open you up and say, "Oh, look at that, it's worse than we thought -- " then your chance of recovery goes way down. The more positive the surgeon's remarks, the greater the chance of recovery. The power of the mind is awesome.
In a study of four hundred spontaneous remissions of cancer interpreted by Elmer and Alyce Green of the Menninger Clinic there was only one factor in common -- every person changed his or her attitude before the remission occurred, fundamentally changed his or her way of thinking, became more hopeful, courageous, positive.
They somehow broke through the collective consciousness, through their self-destructive beliefs and programs and changed their minds on a fundamental level, deep inside. And so they were "miraculously" cured.
The collective belief system extends deeply into our minds. Did you know that our society has even given us a standard time to die? I'm not kidding! There is a day and a time when it is more likely you will die than any other? Do you know when that is? 9 AM on Monday morning. Why is that? It just seems easier to die than face another week of this horrible job! This is a truly remarkable achievement of our species. Presumably no other species recognizes which day Monday is.

The power of the mind is everything.

Some scientists at the University of Miami a few years ago heard of the rabbit study in Ohio and decided to do an experiment to see if this effect might also hold true for humans. They decided to do a study on preemies -- premature babies -- because in intensive care, they are very expensive and the rate of survival is not that high. What are we, seventeenth in the world for infant mortality? Not so hot.
So three times a day for fifteen minutes, wearing rubber gloves, the technicians stroked the tiny babies inside their intensive care units. They didn't call it "stroking," of course; they called it "tactile kinesthetic stimulation," which is the Orwellian term for stroking. God forbid we should call it love!
These scientists concluded that tactile kinesthetic stimulation is cost effective, for these preemies gained an average of 49% more weight per day, which meant that they were discharged from intensive care an average of five days earlier for a saving of $3,000 per admission.
The amazing thing to me about this study is that it ever had to be done!
How could our doctors and scientists have become so absurdly divorced from common sense to have to do a study to prove this, a fact that any mother knows? My heart especially grieves for the preemies in the control group at the University of Miami who didn't have the good fortune to experience tactile kinesthetic stimulation. But the good news is that most hospitals are embracing this information and are permitting more contact with newborns. Physical contact for newborns is vital to ensure proper development and growth.
Dr. Herbert Specter at the National Institute performed another study that illustrates this mind-body connection even more graphically for Health -- this one on some mice.
Dr. Specter divided the mice into two groups.
One group was the control group; he gave a potent immune-system-stimulating drug called Poly I-C to the other. Poly I-C increases the number of killer T-cells in the immune system.
When he gave the drug to the mice, he also exposed them to the smell of camphor. Do you know what camphor is? It is a pungent-smelling material that most drug stores sell in the form of little white cubes. People think it helps with congestion and breathing problems. It is impossible to forget the scent once you've smelled it. It's the active ingredient in Campho-Phenique.
Dr. Specter treated the mice for a few weeks with the Poly I-C and the camphor, and then took the drug away and just let them smell the camphor. Do you know what happened? Their immune systems were still stimulated -- they had become mighty mice -- no bacteria could make them sick, no tumors would develop if they were exposed to cancer- causing agents.
Another group tried this the opposite way at the University of Rochester. They took rats and administered a potent immune-system-destroying drug, cyclophosphamide -- cyclophosphamide is used in organ transplants, it keeps the body from rejecting the new organ -- and at the same time gave them a taste of saccharine-sweetened water, substituting this for camphor as a neutral agent.
After doing this, a number of times, they took the drug away and just allowed the rats to taste the water. With just the smallest taste of the sweetened water, they would fall sick, develop tuberculosis or pneumonia from the slightest intrusion of bacteria or develop cancer from a very slight exposure to a carcinogen.
Do you see what's going on here? The two groups were interpreting a completely neutral agent differently.
This shows how much our interpretation of reality influences our experience of reality.

If we have learned to associate bad health or unhappiness with our experience of life, it becomes a very difficult habit to break.

Think of a set of twins. Both have identical backgrounds, both have the same parents, the same heredity, the same environment; they are treated virtually the same.
What happens? One grows up to be successful and happy, has a wonderful family, lives to a ripe old age. The other becomes an alcoholic and is dead by thirty-six. What causes the difference?
The interpretation of reality.

Our society may have deeply programmed condemnation and judgment into us, and we may have learned to look at all of life and say, "Oh, bad, the glass is half empty." But it is just as easy to say, "Oh, good, the glass is half full." And that is completely within our power.

It is the mind that is dominant. In Massachusetts, a group of scientists were studying the risk factors for heart disease because about 50% of those who contract this fatal killer didn't fit any of the known profiles: they didn't smoke, they didn't have a high cholesterol diet, they didn't even have hypertension, and yet they had a myocardial infarction, a heart attack, and died.
Why?
These scientists found that they could ask two very simple questions to determine whether a person was likely to have heart problems. Do you know what these two questions were?
First, "Do you like your job?" If you could say, "Yes," to this, your risk of heart attack falls by 50%.
And second, "Are you happy?" And again a, "Yes," answer drops your risk of heart attack by another 50%.

What is the difference between health and disease? It seems more and more it is determined by our thoughts, our beliefs, the way we use our minds.

Another study showed that if you do happen to have a heart attack, your chance of recovery is virtually 100% if you are happily married. This was found much more important than diet, exercise or smoking.

The mind controls the body, not the other way around. The old thinking was that the body was dominant and the mind was a ghost in the machine, a fantasy. But if you take the body away, the mind remains! This was confirmed by Karl Lashley, a pioneer in neurophysiology. He trained rats to run in a maze, and then began to systematically remove their brain tissue. He kept taking out more and more and found that their brains worked just fine. He took out as much as 90% and the rats still could run the maze!

John Lorber, a British neurologist, found something similar in a human patient. His specialty is hydrocephalics -- people with water on the brain. A patient was referred to him with an unusually large head, but no other symptoms. The patient was a gifted college student, majoring in mathematics, with an IQ of 130. Dr. Lorber performed a brain scan on him and found that his cortex was only one millimeter thick! The normal is over 4.5 centimeters! Fluid had replaced over 98% of the neurons used for thinking, and he was still above average!

There has been a revolution going on in the forefront of the medical profession during the past few decades. The old notion that the body is primary and the mind is secondary is being more and more deeply questioned.
The old thinking that the body is a frozen sculpture, never-changing, is falling by the wayside. We breathe in 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 atoms of air with every breath. These atoms become part of our organs and tissues. With every breath, we breathe out part of our body, which goes to become part of other people's bodies.
For example, right now there are about a million atoms in you that used to be part of Michelangelo, about a million that were part of Da Vinci, about a million that were once in Genghis Khan. The body is continually changing, it is not frozen sculpture, and it is in a constant state of flux. You breathe today atoms that were yesterday part of a peasant in China.
Radioactive isotope studies have shown that we change 98% of the atoms of our body every single year. And the atoms in some of our body parts change even more quickly than that: we have a new skin once a month, a new liver every six weeks. Even the skeleton, which seems so solid and permanent, is changed completely every three months. We have a new stomach lining every five days; the surface cells, which contact the digesting food, are changed as often as every five minutes. We have a new DNA every six weeks. Even the brain cells (which do not regenerate as do the other cells in the body) weren't there last year in terms of the atoms composing them.
98% of the atoms in your body weren't there last year! It is as if we have a magical building, in which the building blocks are being replaced at the rate of 98% a year, and because we don't know any better, we keep putting the blocks in exactly the same places, over and over and over again.
If we have a tumor, we rebuild the tumor. If we're old, we rebuild the body old. If we're sick, we rebuild the body sick.
But if we could become the friend of the contractor who is directing how the building is being built, then we could change the order in which the bricks were being placed. If we could gain familiarity with the inner programmer who is directing exactly how those atoms are being replaced, we could rebuild our tissues and organs and cells in a different fashion. We would gain a truly awesome power for health.
This is possible because the body is really a thinking machine.

Scientists have found that the brain cells communicate in the language of neuropeptides. Neuro, because found in the brain, and peptide, which means protein molecule. This is how the brain cells talk to each other, not in Latin or Greek or Russian or English, but in the language of these chemical messengers. A cell produces neuropeptides, and other cells have receptor sites for these molecules.
This one says, "Hey, I'm unhappy!" and the other cells all get depressed because of these little molecules.
What is more interesting than this is that the cells of the immune system, the lymphocytes and killer T-cells and macrophages have also been found to have receptor sites for these neuropeptides. What this means is that the immune system is eavesdropping on our internal dialogue, it is responding to what we think. Every cell in our bodies has these receptor sites; every organ has these receptor sites. Having a sad heart is literally true. When you say, "I have a gut feeling about this," that is actually true. The body is a thinking machine.
There was a study done on rats, kind of a horrible study, in which the researchers threw the rats into a bucket of water until they would practically drown, then take them out, dry them off, throw them in again, over and over and over for about six weeks. At the end of that time, they killed them and performed an autopsy on them and found that they had the bodies of old, old rats. Their bodies were stiff and rigid and looked liked ancient decrepit rats.
That is the effect of stress. That is what is happening to us in our society.

The arteries of a child look like flexible plastic tubing. Those of the average octogenarian look like old brittle water pipes, rusty, leaking, filled with material deposits. The habitual thoughts of the average adult quite literally steal youth and health, and replace them with sickness, aging and death.
This shows why simply throwing a new thought in the mind occasionally -- like an affirmation -- doesn't do much good. It is the traditional thought, the habitual thought, the thought that continues to run and run and run that determines the body's response. You paste some very positive thought to your mirror -- "Today I will be happy, today I will succeed, today I will find True Love" -- and for thirty seconds or a minute you think that nice positive thought and the whole rest of the day you continue to think, "You can't have that," "You don't deserve that," or whatever -- to which thought is the body going to respond, the one that is put in for five or ten minutes, or the continual stream of 100,000?
But imagine if you could learn to still the internal chatter, learn to experience life again in the present moment. Then the full power of your mind would be available for you at any time. The mind is like a pond. The thoughts moving in the mind are like the waves moving in the pond. Have you ever dropped a single stone into a quiet pond? What happens? Perfectly concentric ripples spread across the water. This is like having one thought only moving through the mind. The mind is coherent, it is orderly, and it is powerful. What happens when you drop several stones, a whole handful into the water? The waves become very choppy. Some troughs end up on tops of crests, many get cancelled out. This is like the mind when it is caught by those continually running internal programs. It just keeps going and going and going and nothing comes of it.
Scientists have actually measured this. Hooking electroencephalographic leads onto the brain, onto the temporal, parietal and occipital lobes of the left and right hemispheres, they find that the measurement of the surface thinking level of the mind looks very much like a chaotic pond: the measurements show many different frequencies in the brain waves, very little coherence.
This kind of chaotic, disordered thinking is the way most adults think, but not everyone. There has been a lot of research lately about the Peak Experience and what has been found is that the human mind can become completely coherent. Do you know what Peak Experiences are? The psychologist Abraham Maslow, who was a pioneer in studying the positive aspects of human psychology, defined them. He wrote, "These moments were of pure, positive happiness, when all doubts, all fears, all inhibitions, all tensions, all weaknesses were left behind. Now self-consciousness was lost. All separateness and distance from the world disappeared..." These experiences are rare, but can come at any unpredictable time and completely transform life. People have adopted whole new belief systems from one single taste beyond the veil of the senses. These experiences have a curative power.

This kind of perfect harmony in brain wave patterns is also found in small infants when they are nursing, in pets when they are being petted and in adults when they are experiencing expansion of consciousness. What is being measured is a mind that is still, a mind that is in the present moment, not caught by regret for the past or worry for the future.
A mind that is working like this is creating a healthy body.
Your body is already spewing out millions of chemical reactions every second. When your mind is tense, anxious, nervous, your body responds by producing tense, anxious, nervous molecules like adrenaline and noradrenaline. When your mind is calm and peaceful, your body produces calm and peaceful molecules like Valium. Your body is already producing chemicals similar to any that your friendly neighborhood pharmacist will give you, but without the side effects. When your body produces Valium, it makes you feel tranquil but without also making you feel like a zombie.
When your body produces anti-cancer drugs or anti-bacteria drugs, these drugs have no side effects. The body does this absolutely naturally, in the right amount at the right time, ideally suited for the correct target organ, and all the instructions are included in the packaging. Your body does this completely spontaneously for you when it is not stressed.
How do we unstress the body? How do we keep new stresses from accumulating? How do we learn to maintain inner peace and tranquility in the face of the hectic pace of the modern world? How do we learn to stop undermining ourselves with destructive internal programs? How do we learn to expand our minds to our full potential?

Effective prayer..or also called "Right Thinking"
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Hey Hey
post May 24, 2007, 10:05 AM
Post #14


Supreme God
*******

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 7766
Joined: Dec 31, 2003
Member No.: 845



QUOTE(Joesus @ May 24, 2007, 06:49 PM) *
These scientists concluded that tactile kinesthetic stimulation is cost effective, for these preemies gained an average of 49% more weight per day, which meant that they were discharged from intensive care an average of five days earlier for a saving of $3,000 per admission.
The amazing thing to me about this study is that it ever had to be done!
How could our doctors and scientists have become so absurdly divorced from common sense to have to do a study to prove this, a fact that any mother knows? My heart especially grieves for the preemies in the control group at the University of Miami who didn't have the good fortune to experience tactile kinesthetic stimulation. But the good news is that most hospitals are embracing this information and are permitting more contact with newborns. Physical contact for newborns is vital to ensure proper development and growth.
Dr. Herbert Specter at the National Institute performed another study that illustrates this mind-body connection
I know you tend towards theological extrapolation, but what has tactile stimulation got to do with a mind-body connection? And there's not even a full moon!
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Joesus
post May 24, 2007, 10:11 AM
Post #15


Supreme God
*******

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 4043
Joined: Sep 26, 2003
From: nowhere and everywhere
Member No.: 601



I guess there would have to be something to connect the mind and the body to facilitate the comprehension..

Ahrooooo.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Jellybean2
post May 24, 2007, 10:31 AM
Post #16


Awakening
***

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 117
Joined: May 22, 2007
From: Tennesee
Member No.: 11219



QUOTE
And if there is a loving, caring personal God, then why do children get leukemia? Oh yeah, I forgot, it part of "God's plan". I guess we should believe that God bestowed suffering on man so that he would be appreciated?

God didn't want this for us..we brought in on ourselves... Sin is the curse ( and I know, i know...heard it before right?) the wages of sin is death..but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord smile.gif
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Hey Hey
post May 24, 2007, 10:41 AM
Post #17


Supreme God
*******

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 7766
Joined: Dec 31, 2003
Member No.: 845



Some might think that eternal life would be a curse. Not me cos I don't believe in witchcraft cool.gif.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Jellybean2
post May 24, 2007, 10:41 AM
Post #18


Awakening
***

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 117
Joined: May 22, 2007
From: Tennesee
Member No.: 11219



QUOTE(Hey Hey @ May 24, 2007, 12:16 PM) *

QUOTE(Jellybean2 @ May 24, 2007, 04:22 PM) *

QUOTE(Hey Hey @ May 24, 2007, 10:45 AM) *

Discussions can be tough ... especially when you have evidence to fall back on.



that is true...lol... I find that the problem is.. people just take what they have heard and decide it is fact. They have no reason and rarely know the fundementals of what they believe. People should learn not to debate what they do not know or really understand.
*waiting for people to start throwing rocks*

Following my first 20 years in a religious environment (including the actual practice and teaching within a church), and then a further 33 years in a scientific role (including experimental laboratory investigations and research) I feel that I have actually experienced practically much of what I discuss and debate, rather than simply uptaking what others might have spouted. How about you?

20 years in a christian home... 5 of those were hell..and I was agnostic...denied God, His existence.. i mean .. how could He exist and love me and let me go through all that i did? at age 17 I was at the bottom of my rope ( and i know.... you may think i am weak minded) and I turned to God and basically said "Proove it"... i began to read the scripture and learn WHY i was even taught a God... why I believed in Eternal salvation.. why i was taught all my life to believe what i did before i gave it up. God showed me He is real. Although i went through 5 years of hell... There was a strength brought out in me that I didn't know I had. I learned that God loves me.. and He brought me through the worst part of my life... I started praying.... and ( although not over night..it took 3 more years) God brought my family around. My family is healing... and I see changes only a Divine Power could have manifested. I talk not because it is just a "belief"..i talk because I have seen it with my own eyes. The things i know, isn't because someone shoved it down my throat and said, "Believe this"...I know..because i found out for myself . Anything I stand on, I stand on because I have seen in the Bible and God has shown it to me in His Word. I am open to hear new things...and am very willing to listen to many sides... and rarely get offended... I will however put what I hear back in God's book and see if it agrees with what He says... if not.. i toss it.. if so.. i smile because i have a little more wisdom than i had the day before.
I have walked both sides of the fence. Life is the experience i have. A life with and without God.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Hey Hey
post May 24, 2007, 10:43 AM
Post #19


Supreme God
*******

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 7766
Joined: Dec 31, 2003
Member No.: 845



QUOTE(Joesus @ May 24, 2007, 07:11 PM) *
I guess there would have to be something to connect the mind and the body to facilitate the comprehension..

Ahrooooo.
Nice one! laugh.gif
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Lindsay
post May 24, 2007, 11:14 AM
Post #20


God
******

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 1730
Joined: Feb 07, 2006
From: Markham (Thornhill), part of the greater Toronto area, the GTA, just north of Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Member No.: 4838



Tech, you quote me (Lindsay) as saying:
"For example, for monotheists the belief in a personal God who hears and answers prayers is a very tenable belief. It is a very legitimate point of view."

Then you comment: "That's a totally untenable position..."
It may be, for you. Even for me. But note I wrote about monotheists, not about you and me.

Your comment about there being, "absolutely ZERO empirical evidence for the power of prayer" begs the question: What kind of evidence are you willing to accept?

BTW, I do not practice the beseeching and begging kind of prayers. In Aramaic, the major language used in Jesus' day, to pray meant "to connect with, to tune in to the universal power".
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Joesus
post May 24, 2007, 11:33 AM
Post #21


Supreme God
*******

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 4043
Joined: Sep 26, 2003
From: nowhere and everywhere
Member No.: 601



QUOTE
Then you comment: "That's a totally untenable position..."
It may be, for you. Even for me. But note I wrote about monotheists, not about you and me.

If it aint about you how could it be a "very legimate point of view." I'm assuming when you wrote legimate you were meaning legitimate.
Are you suggesting exclusive legitamacy?
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Hey Hey
post May 24, 2007, 11:44 AM
Post #22


Supreme God
*******

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 7766
Joined: Dec 31, 2003
Member No.: 845



QUOTE(Jellybean2 @ May 24, 2007, 07:41 PM) *

QUOTE(Hey Hey @ May 24, 2007, 12:16 PM) *

QUOTE(Jellybean2 @ May 24, 2007, 04:22 PM) *

QUOTE(Hey Hey @ May 24, 2007, 10:45 AM) *

Discussions can be tough ... especially when you have evidence to fall back on.



that is true...lol... I find that the problem is.. people just take what they have heard and decide it is fact. They have no reason and rarely know the fundementals of what they believe. People should learn not to debate what they do not know or really understand.
*waiting for people to start throwing rocks*

Following my first 20 years in a religious environment (including the actual practice and teaching within a church), and then a further 33 years in a scientific role (including experimental laboratory investigations and research) I feel that I have actually experienced practically much of what I discuss and debate, rather than simply uptaking what others might have spouted. How about you?

20 years in a christian home... 5 of those were hell..and I was agnostic...denied God, His existence.. i mean .. how could He exist and love me and let me go through all that i did? at age 17 I was at the bottom of my rope ( and i know.... you may think i am weak minded) and I turned to God and basically said "Proove it"... i began to read the scripture and learn WHY i was even taught a God... why I believed in Eternal salvation.. why i was taught all my life to believe what i did before i gave it up. God showed me He is real. Although i went through 5 years of hell... There was a strength brought out in me that I didn't know I had. I learned that God loves me.. and He brought me through the worst part of my life... I started praying.... and ( although not over night..it took 3 more years) God brought my family around. My family is healing... and I see changes only a Divine Power could have manifested. I talk not because it is just a "belief"..i talk because I have seen it with my own eyes. The things i know, isn't because someone shoved it down my throat and said, "Believe this"...I know..because i found out for myself . Anything I stand on, I stand on because I have seen in the Bible and God has shown it to me in His Word. I am open to hear new things...and am very willing to listen to many sides... and rarely get offended... I will however put what I hear back in God's book and see if it agrees with what He says... if not.. i toss it.. if so.. i smile because i have a little more wisdom than i had the day before.
I have walked both sides of the fence. Life is the experience i have. A life with and without God.
I do sympathize with anyone who has/had a hard time, but we all have our cross to bear (whoops).
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Rick
post May 24, 2007, 11:57 AM
Post #23


Supreme God
*******

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 5916
Joined: Jul 23, 2004
From: Sunny Southern California
Member No.: 3068



QUOTE(Jellybean2 @ May 24, 2007, 11:31 AM) *

QUOTE
And if there is a loving, caring personal God, then why do children get leukemia? Oh yeah, I forgot, it part of "God's plan". I guess we should believe that God bestowed suffering on man so that he would be appreciated?

God didn't want this for us..we brought in on ourselves... Sin is the curse ( and I know, i know...heard it before right?) the wages of sin is death..but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord smile.gif

That sounds to me like a classic "blame the victim" attitude. It appears to be rather heartless. We should use reason to address the real causes of suffering.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Jellybean2
post May 24, 2007, 12:23 PM
Post #24


Awakening
***

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 117
Joined: May 22, 2007
From: Tennesee
Member No.: 11219



QUOTE(Rick @ May 24, 2007, 03:57 PM) *

QUOTE(Jellybean2 @ May 24, 2007, 11:31 AM) *

QUOTE
And if there is a loving, caring personal God, then why do children get leukemia? Oh yeah, I forgot, it part of "God's plan". I guess we should believe that God bestowed suffering on man so that he would be appreciated?

God didn't want this for us..we brought in on ourselves... Sin is the curse ( and I know, i know...heard it before right?) the wages of sin is death..but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord smile.gif

That sounds to me like a classic "blame the victim" attitude. It appears to be rather heartless. We should use reason to address the real causes of suffering.

No, God created a perfect world... i lasted until Adam and Eve broke the law of God bring Sin into the world.. Sin cursed the world...gave it famine, sickness, death.....
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Joesus
post May 24, 2007, 12:24 PM
Post #25


Supreme God
*******

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 4043
Joined: Sep 26, 2003
From: nowhere and everywhere
Member No.: 601



QUOTE
That sounds to me like a classic "blame the victim" attitude. It appears to be rather heartless.

It would sound that way if we had no conscious experience of anything greater.

Sin is not a constant, it is a choice.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Jellybean2
post May 24, 2007, 12:25 PM
Post #26


Awakening
***

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 117
Joined: May 22, 2007
From: Tennesee
Member No.: 11219



QUOTE(Hey Hey @ May 24, 2007, 03:44 PM) *

QUOTE(Jellybean2 @ May 24, 2007, 07:41 PM) *

QUOTE(Hey Hey @ May 24, 2007, 12:16 PM) *

QUOTE(Jellybean2 @ May 24, 2007, 04:22 PM) *

QUOTE(Hey Hey @ May 24, 2007, 10:45 AM) *

Discussions can be tough ... especially when you have evidence to fall back on.



that is true...lol... I find that the problem is.. people just take what they have heard and decide it is fact. They have no reason and rarely know the fundementals of what they believe. People should learn not to debate what they do not know or really understand.
*waiting for people to start throwing rocks*

Following my first 20 years in a religious environment (including the actual practice and teaching within a church), and then a further 33 years in a scientific role (including experimental laboratory investigations and research) I feel that I have actually experienced practically much of what I discuss and debate, rather than simply uptaking what others might have spouted. How about you?

20 years in a christian home... 5 of those were hell..and I was agnostic...denied God, His existence.. i mean .. how could He exist and love me and let me go through all that i did? at age 17 I was at the bottom of my rope ( and i know.... you may think i am weak minded) and I turned to God and basically said "Proove it"... i began to read the scripture and learn WHY i was even taught a God... why I believed in Eternal salvation.. why i was taught all my life to believe what i did before i gave it up. God showed me He is real. Although i went through 5 years of hell... There was a strength brought out in me that I didn't know I had. I learned that God loves me.. and He brought me through the worst part of my life... I started praying.... and ( although not over night..it took 3 more years) God brought my family around. My family is healing... and I see changes only a Divine Power could have manifested. I talk not because it is just a "belief"..i talk because I have seen it with my own eyes. The things i know, isn't because someone shoved it down my throat and said, "Believe this"...I know..because i found out for myself . Anything I stand on, I stand on because I have seen in the Bible and God has shown it to me in His Word. I am open to hear new things...and am very willing to listen to many sides... and rarely get offended... I will however put what I hear back in God's book and see if it agrees with what He says... if not.. i toss it.. if so.. i smile because i have a little more wisdom than i had the day before.
I have walked both sides of the fence. Life is the experience i have. A life with and without God.
I do sympathize with anyone who has/had a hard time, but we all have our cross to bear (whoops).


lol...that was funny..cute play on words
and trust me... that wasn't a sympathy call.. just a reply to your asking my experience smile.gif smile.gif
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Technologist
post May 24, 2007, 02:27 PM
Post #27


Awakening
***

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 213
Joined: Dec 07, 2006
From: NYC
Member No.: 6361



QUOTE(Joesus @ May 24, 2007, 04:24 PM) *

QUOTE
That sounds to me like a classic "blame the victim" attitude. It appears to be rather heartless.

It would sound that way if we had no conscious experience of anything greater.

Sin is not a constant, it is a choice.


How have babies with brain tumors sinned?
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Joesus
post May 24, 2007, 02:49 PM
Post #28


Supreme God
*******

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 4043
Joined: Sep 26, 2003
From: nowhere and everywhere
Member No.: 601



Conscious choices made prior to inhabiting the physical body with the tumor.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Technologist
post May 24, 2007, 02:52 PM
Post #29


Awakening
***

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 213
Joined: Dec 07, 2006
From: NYC
Member No.: 6361



wow, just...

wow
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Hey Hey
post May 24, 2007, 02:56 PM
Post #30


Supreme God
*******

Group: Basic Member
Posts: 7766
Joined: Dec 31, 2003
Member No.: 845



QUOTE(Joesus @ May 24, 2007, 11:49 PM) *
Conscious choices made prior to inhabiting the physical body with the tumor.
There is a scientific term for this type of comment - shite!
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

2 Pages V  1 2 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 24th March 2017 - 02:16 AM


Home     |     About     |    Research     |    Forum     |    Feedback  


Copyright BrainMeta. All rights reserved.
Terms of Use  |  Last Modified Tue Jan 17 2006 12:39 am

Consciousness Expansion · Brain Mapping · Neural Circuits · Connectomics  ·  Neuroscience Forum  ·  Brain Maps Blog
 · Connectomics · Connectomics  ·  shawn mikula  ·  articles