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ERICURN
post May 14, 2013, 02:45 PM
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Hello all, I’ve been around awhile reading and gaining much useful information but this will be my first post, forgive the length. I was hoping that you guys might evaluate my regimen and give me some insight as well as answer some questions I have. I’ve tried a multitude of health supplements, nootropics, and some prescription meds over the past years and finally come to the conclusion that the following regimen is the most stable and useful for me.

A little about myself;

1. I’m a 35 year old male 6’2 and weigh approx 195lbs 12% bf. My general resting heart rate is in the 60s and my average blood pressure is 1teens / 70s

2. I’m a mesomorph who gains muscle and strength quite easily but who has to work hard to maintain any solid level of cardio endurance. I eat a moderately healthy diet but my lifestyle and job lends itself towards an eat when you can what you can diet.

3. I used to power lift and be much larger but grew tired of the amount of food I had to consume and the stress I put on my joint, tendons, etc from lifting such heavy weights. I currently have found that a good stretching routine with bodyweight exercise (pull ups, pushups, dips, etc) with occasional kettle bell use has the overall best benefit for me.

4. I eat a high protein, moderate carb, and moderate fat diet. I honestly don’t eat very much fruits and vegetables but that is because I have a history of IBS, colitis, and crohns and eating fruits and vegetables often leads to a rise in symptoms.

5. I work as an ER and ICU nurse in a very busy hospital as well as a prehospital critical care transport nurse. I love what I do but my schedule is very demanding and the overall stress level can be high. I rarely fell any emotional stress (anxiety, irritable, etc) but often feel the overall physical stress of the job.

6. I make it a point to try and get good quality sleep whenever I can. I get 8-10 hrs of sleep probably 4 nights a week. The other nights can be hit or miss due to my schedule and 24 hours shifts I sometimes work. On my 24 hour shifts I am able to sleep at night but if I have to respond to a transfer then obviously I have to be up working. I nap when it’s practical. Overall I try hard to listen to and meet the needs of my body.

7. I have a good marriage and good children. I spend my time off with my family and studying. Studying is not a burden for me but a pleasure.

My Goals:
1. Overall general wakefulness, energy, motivation, and a quick thoughtful focused mind. I try and live by “treat others as you would want to be treated” In my job this equates to being awake and ready to provide the best treatment possible and when off duty keeping up with research and continuing to study. I am also in school to continue my education. I really enjoy what I do and do not find the schedule or the continued study a burden but a pleasure.

2. I am concerned with long term brain, heart, and overall health but am not necessarily concerned with “living forever” but more concerned with the quality of life now and using my life especially my best years to help others. This drives my overall regimen. I want something that I can sustain long term with little side effects but want to be my best now as well.

Medical history
1. As noted above I have been diagnosed with a few stomach ailments and have to construct my diet and supplements around that. Certain things that may be healthy or seem helpful if they mess with my stomach then I stay away.

2. I have a really good Dr who listens to me and works with me. Any prescription medication I take or may have tried I get legally. I also get blood work done regularly. I discuss all I take with my Dr and any changes we go over for the overall best outcome.

3. I originally started looking into and trying these supplements secondary to fatigue issues both physical and mental. I was seen by a few different DRs and a lot of lab work was done. Best conclusion was possible chronic fatigue secondary to my stomach issues and ADD was thrown around as well. I think the tests for ADD are very subjective and I don’t necessarily think ADD is a negative thing however fatigue whatever the cause is very difficult to deal with. I tried nuvigil both 150mg and 300mg. Nuvigil did provide some general wakefulness but did nothing for my mind and made me feel dull and unmotivated. As you’ll see below I take Methylphenidate. MPH was a huge help and generally seemed to bring me to baseline. Instead of making me feel “speedy” it simply made me feel not tired and seemed to slow my mind down and make it more focused. My pulse and BP generally go down slightly while on it.

My Regimen is as follows. This is nothing complex or overly aggressive but it works well for me.

1. Moring upon awakening on an empty stomach.
• L-theanine 100mg
• L-tyrosine 1500mg
• ALCAR 500mg

2. 30-45 minutes later with breakfast (usually peanut butter and water)
• Extended release Methylphenidate 36mg
• Caffeine 200mg
• Ginkgo 120mg
• Cerefolin NAC

3. Later in the day as needed
• ALCAR 500mg
• Caffeine 200mg (I rarely take the extra caffeine and almost always only take 200mgs a day)

4. At night before bed.
• Magnesium (citrate, malate, glycinate) 600-800mg altogether
• Theanine 100mg
• Very rarely melatonin 1-2mg

5. I also generally take
• Life Extensions 2 a day multi
• Choline 300-600mg a day
• I drink 1-2 beers in the evening 3-4x a week. Never over do it.

I’m curious what your thoughts are on this regimen and its long term sustainability? Honestly most of this is simply designed around and to help the methylphenidate more on that below.

A few follow up thoughts
1. I have spent a lot of time researching everything I take and other options. I have read a multitude of research articles and studies. I have access to a lot of pharmacology, neurology, and medicine journals through work. I have also spoken with many neurologist, pharmacist, and Drs of different specialties.

2. I recognize the importance of fish oil but I have tried multiple different fish oils including high end quality brands and all of them made me feel sluggish and bad. I eat a lot of flax seed and fish.

3. I know some will not like that I am taking methylphenidate daily. From my own research it seems very sustainable if it is used appropriately and one is not chasing a high or a euphoric rush there seems to be very little if any long term side effects. Unlike amphetamines MPH seems to work only as a dopamine and norepi reuptake inhibitor and prevents the reuptake of around 60-70%of these neurotransmitters while its active thus when used correctly tolerance often does not develop and if it does it takes a while. MPH has been around as a prescription since the mid 1950s and we have real life examples of many people who took it long term and there seems to be no real documented examples of neuro toxicity or brain development issues. Now there are always exceptions but they seem only to appear in people who abused the drug, took other meds over the long term that had interaction with MPH, or they were emotionally unhealthy people to begin with and the MPH caused a increase in symptoms.

4. I know DRs, RNs, and other professionals who have used stimulants long term, some for diagnosed medical issues and some for a mental edge, with good overall results and few if any side effects.

A few questions
1. Overall thoughts?

2. I have not yet tried any racetams, curcumin, CILTEP, or uridine. There are others but these are the ones I’m interested in. Any thoughts on how they would work with the above?

3. DMAE has been useful before longer study sessions but I rarely take it. From all the studies I’ve read I can’t honestly determine if its overall unhealthy to take. Thoughts?

4. Do you guys have any other recommendations or thoughts for me?

5. What are your thoughts on the long term use of tyrosine? Out of all I’m taking this is the only one that seems to be mixed about long term use in the literature.

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XR500Final
post Jul 02, 2013, 01:24 AM
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QUOTE(ERICURN @ May 14, 2013, 02:45 PM) *

Hello all, I’ve been around awhile reading and gaining much useful information but this will be my first post, forgive the length. I was hoping that you guys might evaluate my regimen and give me some insight as well as answer some questions I have. I’ve tried a multitude of health supplements, nootropics, and some prescription meds over the past years and finally come to the conclusion that the following regimen is the most stable and useful for me.

A little about myself;

1. I’m a 35 year old male 6’2 and weigh approx 195lbs 12% bf. My general resting heart rate is in the 60s and my average blood pressure is 1teens / 70s

2. I’m a mesomorph who gains muscle and strength quite easily but who has to work hard to maintain any solid level of cardio endurance. I eat a moderately healthy diet but my lifestyle and job lends itself towards an eat when you can what you can diet.

3. I used to power lift and be much larger but grew tired of the amount of food I had to consume and the stress I put on my joint, tendons, etc from lifting such heavy weights. I currently have found that a good stretching routine with bodyweight exercise (pull ups, pushups, dips, etc) with occasional kettle bell use has the overall best benefit for me.

4. I eat a high protein, moderate carb, and moderate fat diet. I honestly don’t eat very much fruits and vegetables but that is because I have a history of IBS, colitis, and crohns and eating fruits and vegetables often leads to a rise in symptoms.

5. I work as an ER and ICU nurse in a very busy hospital as well as a prehospital critical care transport nurse. I love what I do but my schedule is very demanding and the overall stress level can be high. I rarely fell any emotional stress (anxiety, irritable, etc) but often feel the overall physical stress of the job.

6. I make it a point to try and get good quality sleep whenever I can. I get 8-10 hrs of sleep probably 4 nights a week. The other nights can be hit or miss due to my schedule and 24 hours shifts I sometimes work. On my 24 hour shifts I am able to sleep at night but if I have to respond to a transfer then obviously I have to be up working. I nap when it’s practical. Overall I try hard to listen to and meet the needs of my body.

7. I have a good marriage and good children. I spend my time off with my family and studying. Studying is not a burden for me but a pleasure.

My Goals:
1. Overall general wakefulness, energy, motivation, and a quick thoughtful focused mind. I try and live by “treat others as you would want to be treated” In my job this equates to being awake and ready to provide the best treatment possible and when off duty keeping up with research and continuing to study. I am also in school to continue my education. I really enjoy what I do and do not find the schedule or the continued study a burden but a pleasure.

2. I am concerned with long term brain, heart, and overall health but am not necessarily concerned with “living forever” but more concerned with the quality of life now and using my life especially my best years to help others. This drives my overall regimen. I want something that I can sustain long term with little side effects but want to be my best now as well.

Medical history
1. As noted above I have been diagnosed with a few stomach ailments and have to construct my diet and supplements around that. Certain things that may be healthy or seem helpful if they mess with my stomach then I stay away.

2. I have a really good Dr who listens to me and works with me. Any prescription medication I take or may have tried I get legally. I also get blood work done regularly. I discuss all I take with my Dr and any changes we go over for the overall best outcome.

3. I originally started looking into and trying these supplements secondary to fatigue issues both physical and mental. I was seen by a few different DRs and a lot of lab work was done. Best conclusion was possible chronic fatigue secondary to my stomach issues and ADD was thrown around as well. I think the tests for ADD are very subjective and I don’t necessarily think ADD is a negative thing however fatigue whatever the cause is very difficult to deal with. I tried nuvigil both 150mg and 300mg. Nuvigil did provide some general wakefulness but did nothing for my mind and made me feel dull and unmotivated. As you’ll see below I take Methylphenidate. MPH was a huge help and generally seemed to bring me to baseline. Instead of making me feel “speedy” it simply made me feel not tired and seemed to slow my mind down and make it more focused. My pulse and BP generally go down slightly while on it.

My Regimen is as follows. This is nothing complex or overly aggressive but it works well for me.

1. Moring upon awakening on an empty stomach.
• L-theanine 100mg
• L-tyrosine 1500mg
• ALCAR 500mg

2. 30-45 minutes later with breakfast (usually peanut butter and water)
• Extended release Methylphenidate 36mg
• Caffeine 200mg
• Ginkgo 120mg
• Cerefolin NAC

3. Later in the day as needed
• ALCAR 500mg
• Caffeine 200mg (I rarely take the extra caffeine and almost always only take 200mgs a day)

4. At night before bed.
• Magnesium (citrate, malate, glycinate) 600-800mg altogether
• Theanine 100mg
• Very rarely melatonin 1-2mg

5. I also generally take
• Life Extensions 2 a day multi
• Choline 300-600mg a day
• I drink 1-2 beers in the evening 3-4x a week. Never over do it.

I’m curious what your thoughts are on this regimen and its long term sustainability? Honestly most of this is simply designed around and to help the methylphenidate more on that below.

A few follow up thoughts
1. I have spent a lot of time researching everything I take and other options. I have read a multitude of research articles and studies. I have access to a lot of pharmacology, neurology, and medicine journals through work. I have also spoken with many neurologist, pharmacist, and Drs of different specialties.

2. I recognize the importance of fish oil but I have tried multiple different fish oils including high end quality brands and all of them made me feel sluggish and bad. I eat a lot of flax seed and fish.

3. I know some will not like that I am taking methylphenidate daily. From my own research it seems very sustainable if it is used appropriately and one is not chasing a high or a euphoric rush there seems to be very little if any long term side effects. Unlike amphetamines MPH seems to work only as a dopamine and norepi reuptake inhibitor and prevents the reuptake of around 60-70%of these neurotransmitters while its active thus when used correctly tolerance often does not develop and if it does it takes a while. MPH has been around as a prescription since the mid 1950s and we have real life examples of many people who took it long term and there seems to be no real documented examples of neuro toxicity or brain development issues. Now there are always exceptions but they seem only to appear in people who abused the drug, took other meds over the long term that had interaction with MPH, or they were emotionally unhealthy people to begin with and the MPH caused a increase in symptoms.

4. I know DRs, RNs, and other professionals who have used stimulants long term, some for diagnosed medical issues and some for a mental edge, with good overall results and few if any side effects.

A few questions
1. Overall thoughts?

2. I have not yet tried any racetams, curcumin, CILTEP, or uridine. There are others but these are the ones I’m interested in. Any thoughts on how they would work with the above?

3. DMAE has been useful before longer study sessions but I rarely take it. From all the studies I’ve read I can’t honestly determine if its overall unhealthy to take. Thoughts?

4. Do you guys have any other recommendations or thoughts for me?

5. What are your thoughts on the long term use of tyrosine? Out of all I’m taking this is the only one that seems to be mixed about long term use in the literature.


My only take is the amount of caffeine your taking 200mg is about 8 cups of coffee. If you do not think it is having a negative effect try dropping it from your stack for a couple weeks detox off it and see if you feel better (after the initial bang from feeling much worse from it).
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mban
post Jul 06, 2013, 07:24 PM
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1.
Overall, not a bad regimen. 200mg of caffeine is only 2 cups of coffee, not 8 as the last poster suggested. 200mg should be alright per day; you may want to split the dosage into two 100mg dosages, spread ~4 hours apart for a more sustained effect. There is also conflicting litterature on whether long term caffeine use can lead to "adrenal depletion", and overall fatigue over time due to tolerance effects.

There is also conflicting literature about the benefits and use of L-carnitine (i.e. ALCAR). I would recommend cutting the current dosages that you are taking down by 1/2, unless you see a large drop in energy without the higher dosages - see https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/new-stu...se-201304176083

What is the current price you are paying for the cerefolin NAC? Seems like an overpriced supplement from their website ($144 for 3 months is an absolute rip-off based on the ingredients).

2.
CILTEP is a bunch of crap and won't help. Uridine supplementation is unnecessary for most of the population. Curcumin is getting high praise as a cancer fighting supplement, and works in part through its hormetic actions on the body, but you have to watch out for high lead levels found in many turmeric/curcurmin supplements (tho brands that do extensive testing on their products for heavy metal levels should have alright products). I don't really think curcumin will give you the boost you're looking for tho. Racetams are hit and miss for most people, and the scientific community is still unsure of their mechanism of action (there is little to no funding going into the analysis of the pharmacodynamics of the racetams, especially the old ones, due to their lack of efficacy in treating a specific disorder or condition.

3.
Your overall analysis of DMAE is correct, there are few studies that have looked at acute and long term toxicity. If you are looking for a choline source, I would suggest the use of a supplement such as choline citrate (200-1000mg) for study sessions, or citicholine (tho citicholine is much more expensive than choline citrate, and does the same thing; augmenting acetylcholine concentrations/signalling in the brain).

4.
One recommendation would be for you to try the use of adaptogenic supplements. These would have to be taken IN PLACE OF the methylphenidate, NOT concurrently, as the combination of both will cause some pretty bad side effects; Rhodiola rosea for instance decreases the breakdown of amine neurotransmitters (i.e. dopamine, norepinephrine, epinephrine, serotonin) by having weak MAOI properties for both MAO-A and MAO-B. I would suggest a combination of rhodiola, eleuthero, and schizandra, which can all be bought seperately from supplement websites such as www.iherb.com. There is also a product out named "Adapt-232" which has all three, and has a decent amount of literature for the combination, but is more expensive than buying the three supplements alone and mixing them yourself (you are paying for the pre-mixed combo).

Here is the SHI Adapt-232 website and their references for their product:
http://www.shi.se/adapt_232_tablets.htm
http://www.shi.se/pubfiles/shi_prod_studies.pdf

A relatively good review on adaptogens:
http://www.mdpi.com/1424-8247/3/1/188

5.
Tyrosine is a tricky supplement; although it does boost catecholamine levels in the brain, it also increases the production of DA, NE, and E in the peripheral circulation, leading to potential side effects (which is why you are taking it without food in the morning so there are few other amino acids that will compete with the transporters and more tyrosine will get into the brain). Tho, with all supplements that boost signalling, there is formation of tolerance/compensation and down-regulation of receptors that occur with long term use and it will become less effective over time. Tyrosine also has an odd side effect of participating in the production of thyroid hormones T3 and T4, so you have to also watch that your body doesn't produce too much of the thyroid hormones (hyperthyroidism). If you start taking adaptogens, you won't have to continue your use of tyrosine, or keep its use to a minimal dosage.

Any more questions, please ask smile.gif

Cheers,
Mban

QUOTE(ERICURN @ May 14, 2013, 04:45 PM) *

A few questions
1. Overall thoughts?

2. I have not yet tried any racetams, curcumin, CILTEP, or uridine. There are others but these are the ones I’m interested in. Any thoughts on how they would work with the above?

3. DMAE has been useful before longer study sessions but I rarely take it. From all the studies I’ve read I can’t honestly determine if its overall unhealthy to take. Thoughts?

4. Do you guys have any other recommendations or thoughts for me?

5. What are your thoughts on the long term use of tyrosine? Out of all I’m taking this is the only one that seems to be mixed about long term use in the literature.
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evita123
post Nov 23, 2013, 09:01 AM
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Not an expert, but I would also say that you should try to drop the amount of caffeine if you get the chance. Otherwise I think that your (take on) life looks healthy and enjoyable!
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bobashabiniu
post Dec 19, 2014, 03:49 AM
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upplement; although it does boost catecholamine levels in the brain, it also increases the production of DA, NE, and E in the peripheral circulation, leading to potential side effects (which is why you are taking it without food in the morning so there are few other amino acids that will compete with the transporters and more tyrosine will get into the brain). Tho, with all supplements that boost signalling, there is formation of tolerance/compensation and down-regulation of receptors that occur with long term use and it will become less effective over time. Tyrosine also has an odd side effect of participating in the prod
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