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> The Thalami and Third Eye, PSI Science
Robert the Bruce
post Apr 17, 2004, 09:39 PM
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THALAMI: - We were all enthralled by the Ben Franklin and the kite story, which is probably something many people or cells of adepts knew long ago; just as the research into the Thalami has been known as 'the Third Eye' attributes for many millennia. The book 'Wonder Child' recounts some of the modern research in the passage that follows - it is an excellent book for anyone wanting to enable a child to achieve the human potential or to guard against the abject apathy that rules in schools.


Franklin "was thinking as little of the lightning conductor as Hertz when he investigated electrical waves, was thinking of radio transmission. Anyone who has experienced in his own person how easily the inquisitiveness of a child at play can grow into the life work of a naturalist will never doubt the fundamental similarity of games and study. The inquisitive child disappears entirely from the wholly animal nature of the mature chimpanzee. But the child is far from buried in the man, as Nietzsche thinks. 'On the contrary, it rules him absolutely.'


So, the child is born too soon with greatly more response mechanisms available and far greater sensitivity than an animal. The child needs caring for, for much longer than an animal but the child also contains innate releasing mechanisms - the environmental patterns - and the open, experiential patterns. A child needs to fit into her environment and takes up the patterns of that harmonious tendency, becoming disoriented if suddenly placed in a wild jungle in the middle of the Amazon or more relevant perhaps to our way of life in the West, even the next village from the familiar habitat. In fact, a human child becomes displaced and disturbed if simply deprived of her mother. No doubt most of us are familiar with the panic on a child's face when she suddenly discovers in a crowded supermarket that mom has disappeared.


The environmental patterns, though, can also be adapted so that a child does not spend the rest of her life terrified of moving from one place to another. And the experiential response mechanisms also have a chance, either to be fixed by the lack of awareness or variability, or flexible, should the parents provide ample and intelligent wisdom to give the child the necessary room in early life.


What we have then, in our tiny newborn child, according to modern scientific understanding, is a blank slate with certain very ancient and primitive mechanisms that are simply lying there ready to take up the imprint of the world. This, we will see later, however, may be an over-simplification of the true potential of a child, for, from a more un-reasonable and as yet non-scientific viewpoint, the child is far from being a blank slate.


THE DUCTLESS GLANDS AND THE COSMIC THOUGHT FIELD:


In very recent research into the functioning of the immune system, scientists have found great variety in the systems controlled by endocrine glands - parts of the body which were hitherto largely a mystery. The other name for these glands is the ductless or thalami glands and they include the thalamus, the hypothalamus, the pituitary and the pineal glands, each nestling deep in the between brain region of the forebrain, between the brainstem and the cerebral hemispheres. The word thalami means deep chambers. (Greek)


The task of these glands appears to be to convey and expand information flowing into the brain, before it reaches the cerebral cortex - supposedly the memory and higher thinking center. All sensory signals, whatever their nature, pass through these glands - rather like a central telephone exchange for the brain. The pituitary gland orchestrates the delivery of hormones (the name hormone is derived from the Greek word meaning to set in motion) throughout the body affecting such functions as sexual maturity, food conversion and general growth. Under the control of these glands then is both the reception system for information flowing into the body, and the most powerful courier system for messages communicating with the rest of the body - two extremely important tasks, both apparently performed by the one set of biological organs {Vital to pranha or 'chhi' and spiritual reality.}.
BUT THE MOST ENIGMATIC OF THE DUCTLESS GLANDS, FOR THE MEDICAL SCIENTIST, IS THE CONE-SHAPED {The Egyptian cult of the Great White Brotherhood of Master Craftsmen, wore cone-shaped hats to augment and symbolize the pineal gland, they were associated with the Essenes and Therapeutae.} PINEAL, ONCE CONSIDERED TO BE THE VESTIGAL THIRD EYE PERHAPS BECAUSE OF ITS SUSCEPTABILITY TO LIGHT.


{Melatonin is produced better in the dark and workers of the psychic arts know melatonin improves the psychic or psi effects.}


Both Eastern philosophy and Western science have taken these mysterious glands very seriously and their dual tasks of receiving information and controlling the hormones is of particular interest to our study of the wonder child.


One of the most interesting explanations for these tiny glands is that they are the radio station receiver system for the human body and that a great many of the received 'radio waves' do not originate in places that we can necessarily immediately be conscious of. From outer space, for example, from other people too far away to be visible or audible, from the past and the future, from the dead, from animals, plants, birds, insects - in fact from everything around us, then and now.
IT MAY BE, AND IT IS SUGGESTED HERE, THAT THE DUCTLESS GLANDS RESONATE WITH A COMPLETE THOUGHT FIELD.


Much research is presently in process by scientists, such as, for example, Gazzaniga and Eddelman, into this particular area of discussion and this concept of a 'cosmic thought field' resonance device in the ductless glands {The pineal gland has small grains or crystals that 'buzz' like a crystal radio set. When humans get 'high' they sense this hum or 'buzz'.}, can only be presented as an hypothesis, but it is one nevertheless worthy of discussion.


If we consider that the innate releasing mechanisms which each child contains in the earliest years are open to anything that comes in, and that we, the adults, effectively close certain of them in order to protect the child from danger, it may become clear what could be happening inside the system. The glands, receivers of stimuli, have learned to accept certain input from this thought field and to refuse other input so that a great deal of the stimulation available from the cosmos is simply cut off at the source." (5)


Our next entry the Third Eye will delve into some other aspects of this brain of the soul. This book is sub-titled appropriately when you consider the common sense nature of this important ESP ability and what was likely a very appreciated part of human life before our jaundiced sophistication and manipulations of recent times. 'Rediscovering the Magical World of Innocence and Joy Within Ourselves and Our Children' is something we should place as a very high priority. They continue as follows:


"It is not suggested here that children are in a permanent state of enlightenment in the same way as those such as J. Krishnamurti or Buddha discovered, for this is a particular state far beyond all other states. But it is suggested that the state of innocence in childhood samples a comparable connection with reality, which if retained through into adulthood, can bring astonishing beauty and joy. Many children feel this light filled and natural form of existence everyday-and not only think nothing of it (!) but would not begin to consider writing reams of descriptive matter on it. The greatest tragedy of this profound situation is that adults are unable to understand the innocence of childhood in its full form 'at all' - simply because the natural state does not exist to be understood - it is not a matter of the intellect... if permitted to flourish through adult appreciation of it, can bring both the child and parent closer together. But because the adult has forgotten it, consciously he/she does not wish to complement it, very often out of simple misunderstanding...We pass on our fears to our children - step by step, as we move through their lives beside them - and in so doing we manage also to wipe clean their joy, their freedom and their innocence." (6)


Facing fears early in life is essential to maintaining a growth-oriented full life beyond the ego and its insecurities. Most people aren't able to remember the simple fears as a child that formed their character. There are many political and religious organizations who have actually fed upon these urges and fears for millennia, as we have shown. Our means of dealing with the fears as adults is often denial or outright avoidance. It causes us to need black and white answers and makes us convinced the 'experts' who provide those answers are worth listening to. The result would not encourage a man like Nostradamus who grew up near Rennes le Chateau to think his Jewish kabalistic or Cathar roots would be understood enough to share his knowledge. Fortunately for us he became a Jesuit and had the backing of powerful people who he had helped (like the de Medicis) and thus he gave us a glimpse of the knowledge that exists in the future. These glimpses and quatrains are not easily deciphered and include the possibility of change if we learn to exercise free will.


THIRD EYE: - The science of parapsychology has actual physical equipment to enable replication of results due to Col. Bearden's work, as we have covered. Not long ago this was not true and we are going to show the struggle good science was having in the battle with the control and manipulation of the ruling paradigm. This next quote comes from the 1994 J. B. Rhine Lecture, delivered at the 37th Annual Convention of the American Parapsychological Association in Amsterdam, on August 8th of that year. It was delivered by Ervin Lazslo of The General Evolution Research Group in Montescudaio (Pisa), Italy. They start the presentation with a small piece of wisdom from Albert Einstein - "We are seeking for the simplest possible scheme of thought that will bind together the observed facts." (7)


When talking about what the third eye and psychic ability avails each of us, I often find the logic of the person listening to me gets in the way. They think all the experts who taught them or present the news on TV can't be wrong. Even when I do something that amazes them they still get caught in the quagmire of their fears and doubts that they could do the same. They are hearing the words of their leaders talk in fancy words which have little actual meaning to them but sound so impressive. That is why we present some of the same for your consideration at this juncture.


“If the quantum vacuum is to be identified with the field that carries the effects associated with psi, its virtual energies must interact with matter in the universe, including the matter lodged in the brain of human beings. The indicated interaction calls for two kinds of propagations in the vacuum. One kind constitutes the known charged particles that make up the matter-component of the universe. The other kind, however, calls for an innovation in theory: for postulating that also scalar waves propagate within the super-dense virtual-energy field of the vacuum. Scalars, in ordinary vector analysis represent a quantity that is completely defined by magnitude alone, without reference to displacement. Waves of this purely 'informational' (rather than 'force') kind have been discovered by Nikola Tesla at the turn of the century. They are longitudinal waves, like sound waves, {Does this connect with the 'one-dimensional harmonic force’ of String Theory?} contrasting with electromagnetic waves, which are transverse. Scalars may exist at the level of the quantum vacuum,


{Scalar energy is not seen by the eye and some astrophysical representations of the universe include topographies of scalar forces. The 'Dark matter' we have discussed that makes up most of the universe will perhaps have a 'cosmic soup' nature that allows our interconnectiveness.}


… where they would be generated by the motion of charge particles {Recall the electron scavengers of Dr Robins.}. In this view the motion of electromagnetically charged particles in the vacuum approximates the action of a monopole antenna: it alternately charges and discharges local regions of the vacuum's virtual-particle gas. Quantal motion thus triggers scalar waves in the vacuum, and these propagate by alternately compressing and rarefying its virtual-particle gas. The scalar waves generated in the vacuum modify the self-regenerating {Recall the 'peptides' from Bill Joy's article and the nanotubes.} cosmological feedback cycle outlined by Harold Puthoff. (Puthoff 1989) In Puthoff's feedback cycle interaction between the zero-point field (ZPF) {There might be a connection with the Mayan Center Point Theory of building temples on earth and cosmic energy grids.} and charged particles results in an exchange such that there is no average transfer of energy in any direction at any frequency. However, given the propagation of scalars in the vacuum, the energy field with which charged particles achieve local dynamic equilibrium becomes inhomogeneous and anisotropic - the fluctuations generated in the vacuum by the motion of the particles translate into the local equilibria generated between the particles and the ZPF. In this process the interference patterns created by the motion of charged particles modify the local topology of the vacuum, and the modified vacuum field modifies in turn the motion of the particles. (Lazslo 1993, 1994)


The translation process instantiated in the interaction between particles and the scalar spectrum of the vacuum amounts to a two-way Fourier transformation between objects in space and time, and their waveform equivalents. Fourier showed that any three-dimensional pattern can be analyzed into a set of regular, periodic oscillations that differ only in frequency, amplitude, and phase. Specific waveforms can be exact representations - 'Fourier transforms' - of spatiotemporal objects. For example, when a vessel creates waves on the surface of the sea, it creates Fourier-transforms of its impact on the waters of the sea. This is precisely what may happen when charged particles trace their trajectories in space and time: they leave their Fourier-transforms in the virtual particle gas of the quantum vacuum.


The interaction of vessels with the sea is a dynamic metaphor of the above two-way translation process. H. C. Yuan and B. M. Lake have found that the surface of the sea is surprisingly information-rich. (Yuan and Lake, 1977) When its wave-patterns are subjected to mathematical analysis, it discloses information on the passage of ships, the direction of wind; the effect of shorelines, and other factors. The interfering wave-patterns may be conserved for hours and sometimes for days, after the vessels that created them have passed. Though ultimately they dissipate, eroded by the combined action of gravity, wind, and shorelines, as long as the wave-patterns persist, they provide information on the events that occurred at the sea's surface. But the waves created by vessels on the surface do more than create information regarding their own motion: they also inform - literally 'in-form' - the motion of other vessels. All vessels that traverse the wake that spreads out behind a given vessel are rocked by those waves; in this sense the motion of the 'wake-creating vessel' is translated into the motion of the 'wave-rocked vessels.' The medium that transmits the effects is the surface of the sea: it interconnects the wave-creating with the wave-rocked vessels. And, as all vessels both create waves and are rocked by them, the sea interconnects the motion of all vessels on its surface.


{Does cosmic energy lessen by gravity or do all heavenly energies continue throughout time to impact people like the observer on the sea shore swimming in the waves of the marvelous interconnection that astrology portends to understand?}


Inasmuch as the quantum vacuum interconnects the motion of the events that occur in space and time, it functions as a holographic field that encodes the particulars of their motion and transmits them to 'in- form' the motion of other events. There is no immediate indication, however, that this interconnection would be of the anomalous variety that is characteristic of psi.(Psi, as researchers well know, implies signals that are space - and time - transcending, that is, instantaneous for spatially distant objects and indifferent as the time when the signalled events took place.) {What kind of design or consciousness allows for the maintenance of such energy throughout time? Is the constant universal energy that existed when dimensions intersected and caused the 'Big Bang' involved? What kind of cold brain or energy was matter before the events which so continuously impact us? These thoughts are being studied now just as they were 13,000 years ago and more, by chaos science and observers of the heavens and our interaction [like a fine instrument] with these forces.} Yet a deeper analysis shows that the signals transmitted through the vacuum field are precisely of the psi variety. The reasons for this are first, because information in that field is holographic (that is, distributed and thus simultaneously available at distinct locations), and second, because the propagation of the holographic interference patterns is quasi-instantaneous.


{When Bearden gets 500 watts from a vacuum now, does he get it by influencing the info packets to convert nearby or inter-dimensional energy and/or matter in some way, or does the info packet 'non-force' become force through translation of consciousness?}


The latter statement is contrary to the tenets of mainstream physics; it needs further substantiation. Consider, then, that electromagnetic waves propagate in the vacuum with a maximum velocity currently estimated at 299,748+/- 15 km/sec. Relativity theory does not specify a physical reason for this finite magnitude: c functions as a basic axiom. However, if Silvertooth is right and c varies with the motion of the observer relative to the light source, the value of c can be ascribed to the finite electromagnetic permeability of the medium in which photons propagate. In that event c states a physical factor in the universe: its magnitude is inversely proportional to the square-root of the product of the vacuum's electric and magnetic permeability: c=I/0 uO.


So much for the propagation of photons, which are electromagnetic wave-packets travelling in spacetime. What about scalars then? Scalars are neither 'light' nor 'matter' - they are longitudinally propagating fluctuations below the energy-threshold of particle pair-creation (which is estimated at 6 X 10-27 erg/sec). Calculations by Thomas Bearden indicate that the propagation of scalar waves is a function of the vacuum's local electrostatic scalar potential. (Bearden, 1983) Because of the increase in vacuum flux density through the accumulation of charged masses, this potential is variable. It is higher in regions of dense mass, in or near stars and planets, and lower in deep space. Hence scalars propagate at speeds independent of the value of c. In the matter-dense region near the surface of the Earth they may reach velocities indistinguishably close to infinity.


We now have the basic properties of an interactive holographic field that encodes the particulars of the spatiotemporal motion of objects, and quasi-instantaneously transmits the corresponding wave-function to other objects in the planetary environment. This, as psi researchers will readily appreciate, could provide a physical foundation for a certain range of psi phenomena - telepathic and telesomatic transference, lifetime recall in NDEs, past-life experiences, distance diagnosis and psychic healing, among others. The exploration of these phenomena as possible vacuum effects is a task I have undertaken elsewhere. (Lazslo 1993, 1994) I shall not enter on it here, but limit myself to indicating the physiological mechanisms that would underlie the brain's interaction with scalar waves of vacuum origin.
4. In the brain a staggering number of dendrites fire ions, each of which constitutes a minute electric field vector. Thus the cerebral hemispheres may act as specialized scalar interferometers, so that action potentials within the neural nets may be significantly affected by the scalar topography of the vacuum. This could alter the initial condition of the nets, and the alterations may be amplified by the chaotic attractors that govern cerebral processes {It would do good for science to study the atrophying effects of charge buildup when psychic ability is denied by the society at large as reflected in the mental health of individuals who stubbornly or otherwise react to the denial of our soul.}. Chaos in the brain is a recent but well established fact: the cognitive centers of the brain are permanently in a state characterized by chaos. Vast collections of neurons shift abruptly and simultaneously from one complex activity pattern to another in response to extremely fine variations. Within the ten billion neurons of the brain, each with an average of twenty thousand interconnections, the action potential {And vectors of intersecting force.} of the smallest neuronal cluster creates a 'butterfly effect' that triggers massive gravitation 'towards one or another of the chaotic attractors. These attractors could amplify vacuum-level fluctuations and produce observable effects on the brain's information-processing structures.


Further evidence may be marshalled in support of the hypothesis of vacuum/brain interaction. Holographic functions in the brain require coherent nonlinear interaction between neuronal networks and/or pre- and post-synaptic neurons. In biological systems coherent interactions have been noted within molecules, between molecules, as well as among dipole clusters in distinct cellular and anatomical structures. In the past such phenomena have been explained in terms of long-range electromagnetic correlations between physically separated oscillating electric dipoles. Recently, however, an alternative explanation has surfaced. The new concept makes reference to the Josephson effect, a spontaneous correlation obtaining between physically separated superconductors. Josephson effects have also been found in living streams, where they function as a factor of intercellular coherence. (Del Giudice et al. 1989)


According to quantum field theory, Josephson junctions generate fields of quantum potentials (consisting of a magnetic vector potential and an electrostatic scalar potential), which in turn modulate the connection between the correlated superconductors or cellular systems. Such fields may mediate communication between physically separate assemblies of neurons in the brain. Spectral patterns of specific frequency associated with nerve firings would impart information to the field, and the field in turn would impose coherence on the ongoing nerve firings. (Psaltis et al.1990) Current findings indicate that fields of quantum potentials constitute an underlying regulatory system that alters non-synaptic communication between assemblies of neurons and could thus affect even higher brain functions. (Rein 1993)
SUMMARY AND CONCLUSIONS


Psi is a bona fide datum of scientific research, but so far it has remained mainly a datum. Scientific understanding of the phenomenon requires connecting the datum uncovered in psi research with the observations that furnish the empirical component of theories in the natural sciences. In light of the considerations advanced here, the conceptual framework required to connect psi with theories in the contemporary natural sciences calls in turn for a field capable of transmitting information beyond the scientifically recognized limits of space and time {The sciences are wrong again. Thanks to NEC labs for the 300 X light speed, refer to our section of Relativity for VSL.}. If the concept of such a field is not to remain an ad hoc postulate, we need to identify it with fields, or field-like continua, already known to science. The most likely choice in this regard is the quantum vacuum, a highly anomalous universal energy realm that is both the originating source and the ultimate destination of matter in the universe {Well stated expression of what the mystics have known for millennia, if not millions of years.}. Research on this field discloses significant evidence that it transmits a variety of effects that affect the behavior of matter. Complex matter-energy systems in the ultrasensitive states of chaos could amplify vacuum-level fluctuations into significant inputs to behavior. The human brain, of which the cognitive centers are in a constant and pronounced state of chaos, could receive and amplify such signals, and when not repressed by left-hemispheric censors {Logical 'denial'.}, the signals could penetrate to consciousness. The conscious or unconscious signals would yield the phenomena investigated in psi research.


The above concepts are offered not as a definitive solution to the problem of finding a scientifically acceptable explanation for psi, but as a working hypothesis to be tested and elaborated in collaborative research between psi researchers, and workers in physics, biology, neurophysiology, and related scientific disciplines. {Or talk to a Yogi, and other actual students who are able to do what can be known.}" (8)
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Shawn
post Apr 18, 2004, 03:45 AM
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QUOTE (Robert the Bruce @ Apr 18, 12:39 AM)
In very recent research into the functioning of the immune system, scientists have found great variety in the systems controlled by endocrine glands - parts of the body which were hitherto largely a mystery. The other name for these glands is the ductless or thalami glands and they include the thalamus, the hypothalamus, the pituitary and the pineal glands, each nestling deep in the between brain region of the forebrain, between the brainstem and the cerebral hemispheres. The word thalami means deep chambers. (Greek)

The task of these glands appears to be to convey and expand information flowing into the brain, before it reaches the cerebral cortex - supposedly the memory and higher thinking center. All sensory signals, whatever their nature, pass through these glands - rather like a central telephone exchange for the brain. The pituitary gland orchestrates the delivery of hormones (the name hormone is derived from the Greek word meaning to set in motion) throughout the body affecting such functions as sexual maturity, food conversion and general growth. Under the control of these glands then is both the reception system for information flowing into the body, and the most powerful courier system for messages communicating with the rest of the body - two extremely important tasks, both apparently performed by the one set of biological organs {Vital to pranha or 'chhi' and spiritual reality.}.
BUT THE MOST ENIGMATIC OF THE DUCTLESS GLANDS, FOR THE MEDICAL SCIENTIST, IS THE CONE-SHAPED {The Egyptian cult of the Great White Brotherhood of Master Craftsmen, wore cone-shaped hats to augment and symbolize the pineal gland, they were associated with the Essenes and Therapeutae.} PINEAL, ONCE CONSIDERED TO BE THE VESTIGAL THIRD EYE PERHAPS BECAUSE OF ITS SUSCEPTABILITY TO LIGHT.


I have not had the chance to read entirely through your post (only the first third), and while it looks interesting, I would like to comment on one rather blatant error that compelled me to reply: What you refer to as thalami are not ductless glands at all, but are thalamic nuclei (composing the dorsal thalamus) located just above the midbrain, centrally-located within each cerebral hemisphere, and are composed of neurons (and glia) which communicate extensively with other neurons located throughout the brain. The pineal gland, on the other hand, even though it is located dorsally and in close proximity to the thalamic nuclei, it is not a neural structure, is not part of the dorsal thalamus, and has no direct neural connections with the brain.

The dorsal thalamus is the structure you should have referred to, and not the pineal gland (or any glands whatsoever), which "appears to convey and expand information flowing into the brain, before it reaches the cerebral cortex". The dorsal thalamus does these things and more, but in the above article, it is not appreciated that the dorsal thalamus is part of the central nervous system and is not part of the endocrine (or immune) system.

Also, I was not able to find anything on the studies of Gazzaniga and Eddelman through Pubmed which are cited in the post. Maybe the names are spelled incorrectly.

And finally, I think you're confusing the pituitary gland with the pineal gland when you refer to the latter as a 'master gland' when in fact it's the former, but this is a minor point. None of these glands play the role of a Third Eye.
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Robert the Bruce
post Apr 18, 2004, 04:32 AM
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I think a person who is correcting someone's post should read it first.

This is from a book written by researchers and the assertions they make are from their book which includes many experts and degreed professionals. Your comments may apply to things you are not up to speed on because you have not read the body of work or the areas of research such as is evident when you do not read what you are correcting. I humbly suggest. Then you go further and suggest the people whose work they refer to are non-existent simply because you can't find them (which is further evidence of your lack of research and credibility).

The nit-picking over technical terms and names of the Thalami which are generally understood as they describe them is quite ludicrous in my opinion. Yes, ganglia and molecular parts or other things are further breadkdowns for the organs of glands involved - so what. Then you suggest they don't know the difference between the pineal (which has grains or crystals like a crystal radio set) and pituitary. True the pituitary is the hormonal manager but they are talking about information processing.
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Shawn
post Apr 18, 2004, 06:25 AM
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Would it have been better if I had just bluntly stated that the person who wrote the essay above is ignorant insofar as neuroscience is concerned?

I was not just nit-picking over technical terms, but if you'd read my post more carefully, you'd see that I was raising legitimate concerns over the authors apparent fundamental misunderstanding of brain function.

The essay above goes far beyond Descartes ludicrous notion of localizing mind-brain interactions to the pituitary gland. Let's consider some excerpts from your posts to highlight this point:
QUOTE (Robert the Bruce @ Apr 18, 12:39 AM)

One of the most interesting explanations for these tiny glands is that they are the radio station receiver system for the human body and that a great many of the received 'radio waves' do not originate in places that we can necessarily immediately be conscious of. From outer space, for example, from other people too far away to be visible or audible, from the past and the future, from the dead, from animals, plants, birds, insects


I mean, come on, the author is talking about the pituitary and pineal glands receiving signals from outer space! I bet he talks with space aliens too and believes the U.S. government is watching him through his TV.

QUOTE (Robert the Bruce @ Apr 18, 12:39 AM)

In the brain a staggering number of dendrites fire ions, each of which constitutes a minute electric field vector. Thus the cerebral hemispheres may act as specialized scalar interferometers, so that action potentials within the neural nets may be significantly affected by the scalar topography of the vacuum.


First, dendrites do not fire ions. It's hard for me to believe that the author has ever seen a real dendrite, much less know about dendritic mechanisms underlying the propagation of local and action potentials, and their role in neuronal communication.

Also, a cerebral hemisphere acting as a scalar interferometer? This is sheer nonsense.


QUOTE (Robert the Bruce @ Apr 18, 07:32 AM)
This is from a book written by researchers and the assertions they make are from their book which includes many experts and degreed professionals.


who are the authors? I'm certain that real neuroscientists would never have written what you posted. Sorry if you think I'm being overly-critical, but I regard your essay as a potentially dangerous form of disinformation which involves introducing pseudo-science into a legitimate science, and this is what compels me to shoot it down here.
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Robert the Bruce
post Apr 18, 2004, 07:21 AM
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Dear Shawn

They are psychologists and the team included other disciplines. Perhaps you are a neuroscientist and you think only in the jargon of your discipline but interdisciplinary research is proving the truth of these things. Have you heard about the MRI/SPECT study that shows the mystics do what they have alwasy claimed. The superior parietal lobe is where the 'attention point' is turned to the cosmic.

And yes, I have other authors who agree the pineal has those crystals and amplifies the inputs like a radio. You might start by reading the whole original post and then asking reasonable questions instead of trying to impress people - I know you have not impressed me so far.
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Shawn
post Apr 18, 2004, 07:41 AM
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QUOTE (Robert the Bruce @ Apr 18, 10:21 AM)
They are psychologists and the team included other disciplines. Perhaps you are a neuroscientist and you think only in the jargon of your discipline but interdisciplinary research is proving the truth of these things. Have you heard about the MRI/SPECT study that shows the mystics do what they have alwasy claimed. The superior parietal lobe is where the 'attention point' is turned to the cosmic.

And yes, I have other authors who agree the pineal has those crystals and amplifies the inputs like a radio. You might start by reading the whole original post and then asking reasonable questions instead of trying to impress people - I know you have not impressed me so far.

I've read your entire post, and what I see are some Psi researchers far outside mainstream psychology who are trying to provide mechanistic ideas over how psi-related phenomenon are possible. The problem I have is that the authors are straying into the respectable fields of neuroscience and physics, and it's painfully obvious to someone with sufficient degree of understanding of the fields that they really don't know anything about these fields. Like I said in my last post, I am certain that none of the authors is a legitimate neuroscientist. How can the authors expect to provide neuroscientifically-based explanations for Psi if they don't understand neuroscience?

I have asked many reasonable questions with regard to your original post, and they've all gone unanswered. I'm not sure why you never said who the authors are unless you want to mask their identities so that they can't be shown to be quacks, because they certainly aren't real neuroscientists.

You can rest assured that I was not motivated by any desire to impress others. I was motivated to reply mainly because I'd rather not see people like you get deceived by authors who should know better than to publish disinformation and pseudo-science.

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Robert the Bruce
post Apr 18, 2004, 08:22 AM
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Good now you read the part about the physicists and you see you are way over your head. Soon I will put up the work of Professor Morowitz who was the Professor of Microbiology at Yale. As to your nit-picking over ions - I defy you to prove we know about the non info packets or the whole area of morphogenic fields. There is great debate in normative science which is constantly finding the ancients knew what they were doing better than we do. The energy and how it is composed is not the sole or even primary expertise of neuroscience. In fact neuroscience is not even close to the physicists in understanding the manifest layers of wavelenghths composing energy and what is photonic or harmonic. I can go a long way down this road too. The one dimensional harmonic forces that are the building blocks of all energy and matter are not even on the radar screen you are looking at. And yet they are what is important to our understanding of consciousness and energy amplification along affinite and vectored pathways and sub pathways.
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post Apr 18, 2004, 09:21 AM
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QUOTE (Robert the Bruce @ Apr 18, 11:22 AM)
Good now you read the part about the physicists and you see you are way over your head.


I don't think it's over my head, and I still maintain, based on my previous objections, that the essay you posted is an example of pseudo-science.

QUOTE (Robert the Bruce @ Apr 18, 11:22 AM)
The energy and how it is composed is not the sole or even primary expertise of neuroscience.


I see. Would you expect it to be?


QUOTE (Robert the Bruce @ Apr 18, 11:22 AM)
In fact neuroscience is not even close to the physicists in understanding the manifest layers of wavelenghths composing energy and what is photonic or harmonic.


can you elaborate on these "manifest layers of wavelengths composing energy"?



QUOTE (Robert the Bruce @ Apr 18, 11:22 AM)
I can go a long way down this road too.


by all means do.



QUOTE (Robert the Bruce @ Apr 18, 11:22 AM)
The one dimensional harmonic forces that are the building blocks of all energy and matter are not even on the radar screen you are looking at. And yet they are what is important to our understanding of consciousness and energy amplification along affinite and vectored pathways and sub pathways.  


The simple application of information theory at the neuronal and network levels makes it evident that neurons are encoding information that corresponds to information in conscious states. What makes you think that we need to consider any one dimensional harmonic forces for understanding and amplifying consciousness? You do not present a compelling case.
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Robert the Bruce
post Apr 18, 2004, 11:51 AM
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You use words but do not understand them. I refer to these words.

makes it evident that neurons are encoding information that corresponds to information in conscious states.

Please explain encoding processes and the way it occurs in energy interplay leading to consciousness.

The comments you label as pseudo-science are from inventors and top scientists who DO the actual owrk. Their replicable studies and formulas produce the kinds of machines and computer based world we now live in despite having been called atom-mysticists by the normative science when they started their explanations which began with no attempt to prove the mystics right. Nonetheless they did prove the mystics were right.

Rather than post Morowitz's piece at this juncture I will await your next few debunking, knee-jerk 'know-nothing' (Kaku in Hyperspace) remarks and give you rope to hang yourself.
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post Apr 18, 2004, 12:00 PM
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QUOTE (Robert the Bruce @ Apr 18, 02:51 PM)
The comments you label as pseudo-science are from inventors and top scientists who DO the actual work.

I am one of the people who DOES the work. And I know for a fact that you are not one of these people, which is probably why you believe the essay you posted is not an example of pseudo-science.


QUOTE (Robert the Bruce @ Apr 18, 02:51 PM)
Please explain encoding processes and the way it occurs in energy interplay leading to consciousness.


encoding processes are distributed across multiple neurons comprising networks and typically involve observables such as neuronal spiking rate and spike timing.
For example, if the force of a bar pressed into your finger pad was observed to be proportional to neuronal firing rates in primary somatosensory cortex, we would say that these neurons encode the magnitude of force pressed into your finger pad by the integration over their firing rates.

Concerning the way encoding occurs in energy interplay leading to consciousness, this is unknown, though an isomorphism between neuronal activity and the form of consciousness that we experience is plausible, and there is even some evidence for its validity at a local scale.


QUOTE (Robert the Bruce @ Apr 18, 02:51 PM)

I will await your next few debunking, knee-jerk 'know-nothing' (Kaku in Hyperspace) remarks and give you rope to hang yourself.


Well isn't that precious?
Really though, you won't get very far here by resorting to ad homs. And what's Kaku got to do with anything?
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Robert the Bruce
post Apr 19, 2004, 07:53 AM
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What has Kaku got to do with anything? SOunds like you hold yourself up as an 'expert' and yet are engaging the ad hominems again.

Kaku is a top physicist and published author who is well known - are you. His expertise in physics is unquestioned. Physics is the field that studies the energy you and yours can only admit you do not understand. Such as you do here while using vague terms that are conventions rather than understood.

encoding processes are distributed across multiple neurons comprising networks and typically involve observables such as neuronal spiking rate and spike timing.
For example, if the force of a bar pressed into your finger pad was observed to be proportional to neuronal firing rates in primary somatosensory cortex, we would say that these neurons encode the magnitude of force pressed into your finger pad by the integration over their firing rates.

Concerning the way encoding occurs in energy interplay leading to consciousness, this is unknown, though an isomorphism between neuronal activity and the form of consciousness that we experience is plausible, and there is even some evidence for its validity at a local scale.
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Robert the Bruce
post Apr 19, 2004, 08:08 AM
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From the viewpoint of a modern microbiologist, we hear the call for integration and common sense in sciences that are all too often devising separate stakes and battlements to pontificate from, on high. The 'experts' thus proving their ignorance because the result inevitably is specious ego and puffery. Truth did not divide herself up for prissy 'nerds' to prevail upon, with their massive convolutions and devious attempts to practice buffoonery upon her.


In August of 1980 'Psychology Today' ran an article by Harold J. Morowitz, professor of Molecular Biophysics and Biochemistry at Yale University. I recommend a complete reading of this article for anyone who has suffered through a complete exposure to all that our modern education system is comprised of; as it tries to convince you that everything is 'black and white' and that no soul exists through avoidance of its instruction (except a few artists who defy the norm).


"REDISCOVERING THE MIND;
Physical scientists are returning to the view that thought - meaning mind - is one of nature's ultimate realities'.


The study of life at all levels, from social to molecular behavior, has in modern times relied on reductionism as the chief explanatory concept. This approach to knowledge tries to comprehend one level of scientific phenomena in terms of concepts at a lower and presumably more fundamental level... Reductionism at the psychological level is exemplified by the viewpoint in Carl Sagan's best selling book THE DRAGONS OF EDEN.


He writes: 'My fundamental premise about the brain is that its workings- what we sometimes call 'mind' - are a consequence of its anatomy and, physiology and nothing more.' As a further demonstration of this trend of thought, we note that Sagan's glossary does not contain the words mind, consciousness, perception, awareness or thought, but rather deals with entries such as synapse, lobotomy, proteins and electrodes…


Werner Heisenberg, one of the founders of the new physics, became deeply involved in the issues of philosophy and humanism. In PHILOSOPHICAL PROBLEMS OF QUANTUM PHYSICS, he wrote of physicists having to renounce thoughts of an objective time-scale common to all observers, and of events in time and space that are independent of our ability to observe them. Heisenberg stressed that the laws of nature no longer dealt with elementary particles, but with our knowledge of these particles - that is, with the 'contents of our minds'. Erwin Schrödinger, the man who formulated the fundamental equation of quantum mechanics, wrote an extraordinary little book in 1958 called MIND AND MATTER. In this series of essays, he moved from the results of the new physics to a rather mystical view of the universe that he identified with the 'perrenial philosophy' of Aldous Huxley. Schrödinger was the first of the quantum theoreticians to express sympathy with the UPANISHADS and Eastern philosophical thought. A growing body of literature now embodies this perspective, including two popular works. THE TAO OF PHYSICS by Fritjof Capra, and THE DANCING WU-LI MASTERS by Gary Zukav...


However, the only simple and consistent description physicists were able to assign to a measurement involved an observer's becoming aware of the result. Thus the physical event and the content of the human mind were inseparable. This linkage forced many researchers to seriously consider consciousness as an integral part of the structure of physics. Such interpretations moved science toward the 'idealist' as contracted with the 'realist' conception of philosophy.


The views of a large number of contemporary physical scientists are summed up in the essay 'Remarks on the Mind-Body Question' written by Nobel laureate Eugene Wigner. Wigner begins by pointing out that most physical scientists have returned to the recognition that thought - meaning the mind - is primary. He goes on to state: 'It was not possible to formulate the laws of quantum mechanics in a fully consistent way without reference to the consciousness.' And he concludes by noting how remarkable it is that the scientific study of the world led to the content of consciousness as an ultimate reality.'...


The founders of modern atomic theory did not start out to impose a 'mentalist' picture on the world. Rather, they began with the opposite point of view and were forced to the present day position in order to explain experimental results...


The results of this chain of reasoning will probably lend more aid and comfort to Eastern mystics than to neurophysiologists and molecular biologists; nevertheless, the closed loop follows from a straightforward combination of the explanatory processes of recognized experts in the three separate sciences. Since individuals seldom work with more than one of these paradigms, the general problem has received little attention...


We now understand the troublesome features in a forceful commitment to uncritical reductionism as a solution to the problem of mind. We have discussed the weaknesses of that position. In addition to being weak, it is a dangerous view, since the way we respond to our fellow human beings is dependent on the way we conceptualize them in our theoretical formulations. If we envision our fellows solely as animals or machines, we drain our interactions of humanistic richness. If we seek our behavioral norms in the study of animal societies, we ignore those uniquely human features that so much enrich our lives. Radical reductionism offers very little in the area of moral imperatives! Further, it presents the wrong glossary of terms for a humanistic pursuit."


MINNESOTA TWINS STUDY: - This study has been on-going for decades and it has produced some remarkable results that few reports see the impact of in reference to the very nature of 'humanistic richness' and soulful potentialities. Only once is the top researcher allowed to mention ESP. Much as the Harvard study reported earlier, the participants are family members but because they were separated at birth and (in this case) twins - there is a greater connection of ESP or psychic abilities than normal. Isn't this just common sense? Who can doubt it, you might say! Yet most people think ESP is some weird attribute or freak of nature rather than a gift we all have 'within', if they think it exists at all.
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post Apr 19, 2004, 08:24 AM
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QUOTE (Robert the Bruce @ Apr 19, 10:53 AM)
What has Kaku got to do with anything? SOunds like you hold yourself up as an 'expert' and yet are engaging the ad hominems again.

this is really lame, Rob. It's you who has been engaging in the ad homs in response to my reasonable objections to your post.

QUOTE

Kaku is a top physicist and published author who is well known - are you.


For many people, I am an upcoming top neuroscientist and published author who is also well known and in possession of arguably better web programming skills than Kaku. And who are you, Robert? You've been noticably silent about your qualifications. Is that because you lack them?

QUOTE
His expertise in physics is unquestioned.


just as I thought, you're an idol-worshipper.


Are you suggesting that Kaku is the author of your pseudo-science post above?

QUOTE
Such as you do here while using vague terms that are conventions rather than understood.


Actually, the terms I used are very precise and would be understood by the vast majority of neuroscientists just fine. Besides being convention, they also all have a firm basis in direct experience. If you don't understand them, then maybe that's a hint that you're in over your head.


And also, since you've made it clear that you have no intentions of engaging in any sort of rational discussion, I have no reason for continuing with this useless, time-wasting banter. So, enjoy yourself, as I have chosen to wash my hands of this exchange.

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Robert the Bruce
post Apr 19, 2004, 10:50 AM
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You agree they are convention and they are not precise. Kaku is not my hero and if you look at the many posts from physics and more exact sciences than neuroscience you will see I do indeed think the quantum or atom-mysticists are heroes of mine. But so are many other open-minded people. I have provided links to my books - I imagine you have some articles published and might force a few students or others to read them - but Kaku is a very successful author. I have only recently been published and there are many books coming down the pipe in addition to the fourteen you can see at world-mysteries or the hard copy one that finally made it to cover design inclusion last week on Amazon.

Indeed I did not complete a degree at a university although I tested out of a BA and was selected to represent the students in a Master's Program. I consider my time in school was a waste - listening to uninformed teachers by and large.

I think my work is substantial and in the fields where I have worked I have received high accolades - but none of that is of great interest to me anymore.

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Robert the Bruce
post Apr 19, 2004, 10:55 AM
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You say:

Are you suggesting that Kaku is the author of your pseudo-science post above?

No I provided the source book in the original post which you initially said you had not read while stating you could not find the names Gazzaniga and Edelmann. Then you seemed to have read it and yet keep asking who are the authors of part of the initial post (there are many other authors and Nobel Laureates in the latter part of that post which you have ad hominemly attacked as pseudo-science. You also say your web programming skills exceed Kaku and yet you cannot seem to find research or names and books referred to - hmm. Med check!!???
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post Apr 19, 2004, 11:15 AM
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QUOTE (Robert the Bruce @ Apr 19, 01:50 PM)
but none of that is of great interest to me anymore.

so what is of great interest to you now?
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post Apr 19, 2004, 12:47 PM
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Dr Kaku is the famous co-author os 'String Theory'.
He is one of the latest authors to demonstrate that if you can think of a presently unknown concept which cannot be proven or disproven, it can be financially beneficial to establish such a concept, and make a fortune whilst many people investigate its plausibility.
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Robert the Bruce
post Apr 19, 2004, 12:52 PM
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YMMD with that ansewr! TX

This post has been edited by Guest: May 16, 2011, 09:00 PM
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Robert the Bruce
post Apr 19, 2004, 12:57 PM
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Here is more of your rational diatribe from a pubescent student of life.

And also, since you've made it clear that you have no intentions of engaging in any sort of rational discussion, I have no reason for continuing with this useless, time-wasting banter. So, enjoy yourself, as I have chosen to wash my hands of this exchange.


I have provided numerous detaied and well researched thoughts of top accredited people - you hold forth on your ego and imagined importance.
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Shawn
post Apr 19, 2004, 01:04 PM
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QUOTE (Robert the Bruce @ Apr 19, 03:57 PM)
Here is more of your rational diatribe from a pubescent student of life.

- you hold forth on your ego and imagined importance.



Idol-worshipper, you are like an ill-mannered student. By all means, continue to misjudge to your hearts content.

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Dan
post Apr 19, 2004, 03:32 PM
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jesus, what a tool. These pseudoscientist-types always amaze me with their simultaneous appearance of intelligence and incompetence. This 'bruce' dork is quite a gem
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post Apr 19, 2004, 04:05 PM
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QUOTE (Dan @ Apr 19, 03:32 PM)
jesus, what a tool.  These pseudoscientist-types always amaze me with their simultaneous appearance of intelligence and incompetence.  This 'bruce' dork is quite a gem


My thoughts about Robert the Bruce: He's posted a lot of interesting information even if it's swamped by disinformation. He believes physics holds some priority over the biological sciences but doesn't realize how outmoded this belief is. He probably reads a lot, which seems to have resulted in his uncritical acceptance of everything his idols and heroes write about. His belligerent front belies hidden insecurities which he tries to overcompensate for by identifying with his idols, either by parroting or emulating them, or otherwise fantasizing about being them. Unfortunately, he is not his idols, and he has not demonstrated an ability to integrate new information or to reconcile competing viewpoints, nor does he deal with criticism in any way other than by lashing out.

A most interesting case-study, err, umm,, I mean gem!


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Laz
post Apr 20, 2004, 02:37 AM
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you have to admire his unwavering belief in himself smile.gif
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anniemo
post Apr 20, 2004, 04:41 AM
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QUOTE
I have totally dedicated my life to making people aware of the dangers facing them-um,that bruce almighty type guy whatever


dude.... isnt that a bit fear based?


and are you gonna come back at me and say some sh*t like "Not pointing out the dangers in life is living oblivously to them"

hey look! I just quoted myself. awesome
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Robert the Bruce
post Apr 20, 2004, 05:46 AM
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It would be fear-based if I was into the self. But as the Mayans say - 'Do not put your self in front of your SLEF'.

Actually I have long lived according to the Keltic Creed which can be summarized as NO FEAR. My last name is a clue to that - Baird - do you know what a Baird (BRD) is?
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Robert the Bruce
post Apr 20, 2004, 05:55 AM
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I have no need of idols as you say. I am a leading-edge integrator of knowledge and the tenured paradigm thinkers (stinkers) like you are not likely able to comprehend (because you have not read -and thus engage in ad hominems).

http://www.world-mysteries.com/gw_rbaird.htm
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Robert the Bruce
post Apr 20, 2004, 06:03 AM
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Your erudition and insight is awesome. Your argument pompous and profound (or yet to be found).
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Robert the Bruce
post Apr 20, 2004, 06:12 AM
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Still presenting nothing integrative or meaningful - just ad hominems again. Yes, I will be as ill-mannered as those who do so. In fact I can be as ill-mannered as anyone - I am no amateur at this - like you.
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Laz
post Apr 20, 2004, 06:59 AM
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Filibuster ?
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Guest
post Apr 20, 2004, 07:07 AM
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QUOTE (Laz @ Apr 20, 06:59 AM)
Filibuster ?

"Filibuster and his pet topic form an endless loop. If his first thrust doesn't win the day, he will try to gain ground with a second, third, fourth ... nth repetition. He may even make a good initial attack, but his monotonous hectoring and prodigious output rapidly clears the field of other Warriors. Filibuster eventually lands in everyone's killfile ."

yeah it sounds a lot like "Robert the Bruce" but the field will surely clear him before he clears the field.
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