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> ORIGINAL SIN: REVISITING A BIBLICL VIEW
rksingh
post Oct 08, 2015, 09:09 PM
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ORIGINAL SIN: REVISITING A BIBLICAL VIEW

--R. K. SINGH


Is it according to the Bible that each person is conceived in Sin just as each one carries the burden of the sin of the first man and woman? Wasn’t the taste of the forbidden fruit in Eden the awareness of physical attraction in man and woman? Wasn’t the Tree of knowledge actually the knowledge of the process of creation, of Love, of sex?

I won’t like to reflect on how sex knowledge degenerated into sin. But, I am convinced the Bible does not decry sex. Nor is sex something bad (or equated with sin): “The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage” (Luke 20:34) and “whoso findeth a wife findeth a good thing, and obtained favour of the Lord” (Pro.18:22). Thus, marriage is not only physical union but also God-ordained, divine institution: husband and wife are conceived as one flesh (Mk.10:6-8; Eph. 5:28-31) and are expected to stay together, love each other as their own flesh (Eve is created out of Adam’s flesh, his rib.)
Because God created human beings as male and female (Adam and Eve). He created Sex and ordained the institution of marriage (or sexual union in any socially acceptable form) to bind man and woman together as husband and wife, not necessarily to procreate (there is plenty of procreation without marriage!) but to lead a family life through love and sex (Matthew 19:4-5).

It is God’s design that we enjoy life, be happy, be one flesh in coitus, and thus glorify Him in body. As I understand, reading through the Bible, sex is the source of happiness in equality, in oneness of man and woman.

To my mind, in Biblical Christianity, it is sin not to believe, not to have trust, not to have hope and love. Christianity stands on the basic tripod of Hope, Faith and Love. If one reads the quotations I have copied from my Bible, one will get the idea of what sin essentially means: Sin is progressive, personally committed (not inherited), and both forgiven and unforgiven.

Maybe, one is right the original sin relates to violation of the divine commandment, not trusting God (but Serpent/Satan/ Lucifer, who was out to destroy sense of righteousness God had originally imbued Adam and Eve with and to pass on the same values to their children. They faltered and thus, sinned, and were consequently banished from Eden; they were the first Man and Woman who failed to keep their trust in the commandment of their creator and so, committed the archetypal sin (or original sin). They lost their freedom to live in the kingdom of God; they fell from Glory, lost their (good) image in the eyes of God. They broke the covenant and so, they were deprived of the good fruits of their labour or acts in Eden. (Various sects of Christianity tend to offer their own versions of the original sin, which may be contradictory to Biblical meaning.)

Now, to me all these have symbolic meanings, too.

Adam signifies the heavenly spirit of Adam, and Eve His human soul. The tree of good and evil (or knowledge) signifies the human world; for the spiritual and divine world is purely good and absolutely luminous, but in the human world is light and darkness, good and evil, exist as opposite conditions.
The meaning of the serpent is attachment to the human world. This attachment of the spirit to the human world led the soul and spirit of Adam from the world of freedom to the world of bondage and caused him to turn from the kingdom of God to the human world. When the soul and spirit of Adam entered the human world, he came out from the paradise of freedom and fell into the world of bondage. From the height of purity, glory and goodness, he entered into the world of good and evil; he descended from unity to differences, to sin. The story is a symbolic presentation of spirit’s attachment to the physical bondage; attachment to the earthly world, in relation to attachment to the spiritual world, is considered as a sin.
It is sin to get away from the Essence of Oneness, from perfection of Eden to imperfections of the earthly existence, going farther from exaltation to humiliation.

Let’s also remember Adam had no father or mother, he was created by God in His own image, with absolute perfection; he was a living soul; he came into existence from the Spirit of life.

I Corinthians 15-22 states; “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.” If I try to understand its meaning, it seems Adam is the physical nature while Christ is the spiritual nature; that is, the physical nature is born of Adam, but the spiritual nature is born from the bounty of the Holy Spirit. This spiritual nature of all perfections, appears through the breath of the Holy Spirit, which is light, spirituality, exaltation, love, grace, glory, kindness to all, the essence of life. Christ is the central point of the Holy Spirit; He is born of the Holy Spirit (i.e His Reality does not descend from Adam). Adam is the cause of physical life of mankind; he is the father of human beings, but he cannot provide spiritual life. Christ is the cause of spiritual life of man; his is the spiritual fatherhood.

Perhaps, we can also say sin is the consequence of the power of the physical world (as exemplified by Lucifer, who was its captive, evincing anger, jealousy, hatred, pride, avarice, cruelty, ignorance etc.) and its demands, imperfections, sufferings and death. The Reality of Christ, the “quickening spirit”, is a promise of eternal life, happiness, heaven.

I doubt it is reasonable to believe that by eating the forbidden fruit, Adam became the cause of the death of humanity. If Adam was a sinner, what is the sin of Abraham? What is the fault of Isaac, or of Joseph?

In fact, through Christ, the believing souls attain absolute perfection.



Quotations on SIN, it’s nature, and salvation from sin from the BIBLE:
1. “Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of law.” (I John 3:4)
2. “All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.” (I John 5:17)
3. “And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.” (Romans 14:23)
4. “But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.” (Genesis 3:6)
5. “But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then, when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth for the death.” (James 1: 14-15)
6. Sin is the ways of the ungodly (Psalm 1)
(Reading the Psalm 1 and the quotations 4 and 5, it appears sin is progressive.)
7. “But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.” (Isaiah 59:2)
8. “The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.” (Ezekiel 18:20)
9. “But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.” (Mark 10:14; Also, Luke 18:16)
(Quotations 7, 8, 9 indicate that sin is personally committed, and is not inherited.)
10. “Wherefore I say unto you, all manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.” (Matthew 12:31)
cf: “But they rebelled, and vexed his holy spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.” (Isaiah 63:10) “And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.”(Ephesians 4:30)
11. “But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.” (Mark 3:29).
12. “And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.” (Luke 12:10)
13. “For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentence; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame, … But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.” (Hebrews 6:4-8).
14. “For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, …. of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the convenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?” (Hebrews 10:26-30) etc.
(Quotations 10 to 14 indicate that certain sins are unforgiven.)
15. “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.” (Mark 16:16)
16. “ Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord” (Acts 3:19); “Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.” (Acts 2:38)
(The quotations indicate that sins can be forgiven by repentence, which is the return from disobedience to obedience, from deprivation from God to unity with Him, partaking of His knowledge and Love and Sprit.)
17. Jesus will save people from their sins. (Matthew 1:21; Mark 16:16; Act 2:38; 22:16 etc)
“But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.” (Romans 6:17-18)
(Salvation from sin through belief, hope, faith and love in Christ, through righteousness in Spirit).

(The paper was written in April 1997)

-Dr Ram Krishna Singh, Professor (HAG), Indian School of Mines, Dhanbad 826004, India



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Joesus
post Oct 09, 2015, 07:21 AM
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QUOTE(rksingh @ Oct 09, 2015, 05:09 AM) *


Is it according to the Bible that each person is conceived in Sin just as each one carries the burden of the sin of the first man and woman?
Actually the tenets of the Bible can be linked to Eastern spiritual sciences such as Advaita Vedanta (non-dualism) which I'm sure you already know (or maybe not...).
QUOTE(rksingh @ Oct 09, 2015, 05:09 AM) *
Wasn’t the taste of the forbidden fruit in Eden the awareness of physical attraction in man and woman? Wasn’t the Tree of knowledge actually the knowledge of the process of creation, of Love, of sex?
I doubt it. "Original" sin is kind of a misnomer. Assuming there is a beginning and an ending to God and the ability of God to create something like time and space.. the idea of the origins of sin can only be applied within the contexts of duality.

One definition of sin, is separation of truth from knowledge and experience.

QUOTE(rksingh @ Oct 09, 2015, 05:09 AM) *
It is God’s design that we enjoy life, be happy, be one flesh in coitus, and thus glorify Him in body. As I understand, reading through the Bible, sex is the source of happiness in equality, in oneness of man and woman.

That's a rather animalistic approach to happiness. It also assumes that one does not become happy with the ability to glorify God in oneness until you have sex with the opposite sex. Seems light years removed from the reality of God's oneness with a human.
Really... you don't believe the crap you just wrote do you?
QUOTE(rksingh @ Oct 09, 2015, 05:09 AM) *

To my mind, in Biblical Christianity, it is sin not to believe, not to have trust, not to have hope and love.

Not so easy to trust, love or have hope in something you have no direct experience of. Some may be happy enough being led into a belief system and assuming what the authoritative decree establishes as truth, but like sex, having it is certainly different than being told about it.
To reference your mind... I'd say it was pretty far removed from Biblical Christianity rolleyes.gif
QUOTE(rksingh @ Oct 09, 2015, 05:09 AM) *
Christianity stands on the basic tripod of Hope, Faith and Love. If one reads the quotations I have copied from my Bible, one will get the idea of what sin essentially means: Sin is progressive, personally committed (not inherited), and both forgiven and unforgiven.

You mean if someone reads what you copy and paste, and assumes as you have.. what it stands for.
Sin if understood, can be seen as the innocent emergence of mind into duality (at least from one persepective definition of original sin). An aspect of the soul coming out of omniscient consciousness and entering a temporary container of individuality without bringing the awareness of all that is into duality, in order to innocently enter the game of duality as it was created by the soul prior to birth. That process would be called Karma... wink.gif
QUOTE(rksingh @ Oct 09, 2015, 05:09 AM) *

Now, to me all these have symbolic meanings, too.

Adam signifies the heavenly spirit of Adam, and Eve His human soul. The tree of good and evil (or knowledge) signifies the human world; for the spiritual and divine world is purely good and absolutely luminous, but in the human world is light and darkness, good and evil, exist as opposite conditions.
This presupposes that eve the human soul is less divine that the male aspect of heavenly spirit if you follow the idea that the human soul is created from the spirit of Adam. (Which actually isn't that far removed from superstitious Christianity, which makes women out to be evil and the downfall of man having fallen into temptation and corrupting Adams destiny to remain righteous and in the good graces of God) It also assumes a dualistic position of one, and another.
Like god having sides such as a good, side, a vengeful side, a compassionate side, a creative side.. all dual in nature and description. Mans interpretation of the divine, or a human created God. wink.gif
QUOTE(rksingh @ Oct 09, 2015, 05:09 AM) *

The meaning of the serpent is attachment to the human world. This attachment of the spirit to the human world led the soul and spirit of Adam from the world of freedom to the world of bondage and caused him to turn from the kingdom of God to the human world. When the soul and spirit of Adam entered the human world, he came out from the paradise of freedom and fell into the world of bondage. From the height of purity, glory and goodness, he entered into the world of good and evil; he descended from unity to differences, to sin. The story is a symbolic presentation of spirit’s attachment to the physical bondage; attachment to the earthly world, in relation to attachment to the spiritual world, is considered as a sin.

Assuming God was not involved where adam fell, or assuming God was fuckin' with Adam and stuck his ass into the world where he became attached, or simply cast him out without the knowledge and awareness of who he was so he became attached to a different memory and experience. The story gets more twisted every time some moron decides to interpret scripture from the side of duality rather than the understanding of both duality and non-duality.
Attachment to duality is attributed to sensory orientation or ego, not the soul. The soul cannot, nor will it ever become corrupted. That is the rather superstitious rant of the ego on self righteousness and without the knowledge and experience of Union.
There is a quote from the Bible where Jesus gets into a discussion with the pharisees about his position as the "Son of God". They accuse him of blasphemy and attacking their authority over man in deciding for man what God is and wants. Jesus says to them (referring to their own scripture) "Does it not say in your ancient scripture that ye are gods?" In another quoted scripture he says" I and my Father are one. What the Father witnesses in me I witness in him" signifying the unity between his dual nature of being in a human body with his Godlike infinite nature of the divine soul or consciousness that is one with everything.
QUOTE(rksingh @ Oct 09, 2015, 05:09 AM) *

It is sin to get away from the Essence of Oneness, from perfection of Eden to imperfections of the earthly existence, going farther from exaltation to humiliation.
I'd like to think what is created by God is perfect unless God is imperfect. Hot is not better than cold when you are trying to cool something. It is simply a different point of view and each has its purpose and application.
Ever heard the saying, "one man's junk is another's treasure"? its not the object of perception that causes suffering but rather the interpretation of the object within the mind of the observer. All suffering is self inflicted. The object has no power over an individual unless the individual gives the object power over him/her. Such is the nature of Satan (which is a derivative of a latin word describing the ignorance and delusion of ego and its attachment to self inflicted suffering).
It's not bad to leave your home and visit another place, but to forget it altogether and have no place to return or reference is disconcerting. One need only remember and what was forgotten was not really lost but misplaced within the ego's references to reality. The nature of the soul is that it is always connected to the body (as long as it is functioning correctly). One is never separated other than in thought or memory. We are taught from birth and influenced by our parents beliefs as well as societal beliefs or social mores. We assume those who are seen as the authority know what they are talking about. This blind acceptance is known as the biblical "Beast".
QUOTE(rksingh @ Oct 09, 2015, 05:09 AM) *

Let’s also remember Adam had no father or mother, he was created by God in His own image, with absolute perfection; he was a living soul; he came into existence from the Spirit of life.
The image of God? Hmm. this means the physical manifestation of immortality, omniscience, omnipresence and infinity as spirit in its entirety can be contained in an image because God can do anything? Gimme a break.
QUOTE(rksingh @ Oct 09, 2015, 05:09 AM) *


I Corinthians 15-22 states; “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.” If I try to understand its meaning, it seems Adam is the physical nature while Christ is the spiritual nature; that is, the physical nature is born of Adam, but the spiritual nature is born from the bounty of the Holy Spirit. This spiritual nature of all perfections, appears through the breath of the Holy Spirit, which is light, spirituality, exaltation, love, grace, glory, kindness to all, the essence of life. Christ is the central point of the Holy Spirit; He is born of the Holy Spirit (i.e His Reality does not descend from Adam). Adam is the cause of physical life of mankind; he is the father of human beings, but he cannot provide spiritual life. Christ is the cause of spiritual life of man; his is the spiritual fatherhood.
Yer back to beginnings and endings, cause and effect. If Christ is the spiritual nature and Adam the physical, why does one presuppose power over another unless one exists without the other either in nature or in divinity? This sort of follows the dualistic nature of God. The good side, the vindictive side etc. etc.
Without having an experience of God, the images created within the ego's reference to duality is gonna be like looking thru glass covered by beliefs and experiences without understanding, truth or knowledge.
QUOTE(rksingh @ Oct 09, 2015, 05:09 AM) *

Perhaps, we can also say sin is the consequence of the power of the physical world (as exemplified by Lucifer, who was its captive, evincing anger, jealousy, hatred, pride, avarice, cruelty, ignorance etc.) and its demands, imperfections, sufferings and death. The Reality of Christ, the “quickening spirit”, is a promise of eternal life, happiness, heaven.

You can say anything, but experience, that leads to experience is often a superior way to knowledge.
QUOTE(rksingh @ Oct 09, 2015, 05:09 AM) *

I doubt it is reasonable to believe that by eating the forbidden fruit, Adam became the cause of the death of humanity. If Adam was a sinner, what is the sin of Abraham? What is the fault of Isaac, or of Joseph?

In fact, through Christ, the believing souls attain absolute perfection.

Or Christ being something other than Jesus, is built in and activated by free will.


QUOTE(rksingh @ Oct 09, 2015, 05:09 AM) *

Quotations on SIN, it’s nature, and salvation from sin from the BIBLE:
1. “Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of law.” (I John 3:4)
2. “All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.” (I John 5:17)
3. “And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.” (Romans 14:23)
4. “But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.” (Genesis 3:6)
5. “But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then, when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth for the death.” (James 1: 14-15)
6. Sin is the ways of the ungodly (Psalm 1)
(Reading the Psalm 1 and the quotations 4 and 5, it appears sin is progressive.)
7. “But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.” (Isaiah 59:2)
8. “The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.” (Ezekiel 18:20)
9. “But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.” (Mark 10:14; Also, Luke 18:16)
(Quotations 7, 8, 9 indicate that sin is personally committed, and is not inherited.)
10. “Wherefore I say unto you, all manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.” (Matthew 12:31)
cf: “But they rebelled, and vexed his holy spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.” (Isaiah 63:10) “And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.”(Ephesians 4:30)
11. “But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.” (Mark 3:29).
12. “And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.” (Luke 12:10)
13. “For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentence; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame, … But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.” (Hebrews 6:4-8).
14. “For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, …. of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the convenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?” (Hebrews 10:26-30) etc.
(Quotations 10 to 14 indicate that certain sins are unforgiven.)
15. “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.” (Mark 16:16)
16. “ Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord” (Acts 3:19); “Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.” (Acts 2:38)
(The quotations indicate that sins can be forgiven by repentence, which is the return from disobedience to obedience, from deprivation from God to unity with Him, partaking of His knowledge and Love and Sprit.)
17. Jesus will save people from their sins. (Matthew 1:21; Mark 16:16; Act 2:38; 22:16 etc)
“But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.” (Romans 6:17-18)
(Salvation from sin through belief, hope, faith and love in Christ, through righteousness in Spirit).

(The paper was written in April 1997)

-Dr Ram Krishna Singh, Professor (HAG), Indian School of Mines, Dhanbad 826004, India
I'd say you are lacking in the integration of non-dualistic science due to your wanting to be polite towards Christian beliefs (probably because you lack experience in Christian beliefs or its origins, as well as eastern spiritual science)... and, based on your predilection towards sex (being that the majority of your posts are in erotic poetry) you kinda failed in achieving any real believable authority in regards to biblical references.

I like these biblical quotes: "Those that have the eyes to see and the ears to hear will see and hear" and "let the dead bury the dead."

Trying to be politically correct without actually leading one to the greater truth after experiencing it, is simply "the blind leading the blind"

After reading your poem on masturbation, I think you achieved a certain expertise in that regard (at least when it comes to mental masturbation). wink.gif

btw.. are you by any chance a Muslim? You have a certain resonant approach regarding sin and sex that feels kinda muslim-ish. huh.gif
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rksingh
post Oct 23, 2015, 02:45 AM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ Oct 09, 2015, 08:21 AM) *

QUOTE(rksingh @ Oct 09, 2015, 05:09 AM) *


Is it according to the Bible that each person is conceived in Sin just as each one carries the burden of the sin of the first man and woman?
Actually the tenets of the Bible can be linked to Eastern spiritual sciences such as Advaita Vedanta (non-dualism) which I'm sure you already know (or maybe not...).
QUOTE(rksingh @ Oct 09, 2015, 05:09 AM) *
Wasn’t the taste of the forbidden fruit in Eden the awareness of physical attraction in man and woman? Wasn’t the Tree of knowledge actually the knowledge of the process of creation, of Love, of sex?
I doubt it. "Original" sin is kind of a misnomer. Assuming there is a beginning and an ending to God and the ability of God to create something like time and space.. the idea of the origins of sin can only be applied within the contexts of duality.

One definition of sin, is separation of truth from knowledge and experience.

QUOTE(rksingh @ Oct 09, 2015, 05:09 AM) *
It is God’s design that we enjoy life, be happy, be one flesh in coitus, and thus glorify Him in body. As I understand, reading through the Bible, sex is the source of happiness in equality, in oneness of man and woman.

That's a rather animalistic approach to happiness. It also assumes that one does not become happy with the ability to glorify God in oneness until you have sex with the opposite sex. Seems light years removed from the reality of God's oneness with a human.
Really... you don't believe the crap you just wrote do you?
QUOTE(rksingh @ Oct 09, 2015, 05:09 AM) *

To my mind, in Biblical Christianity, it is sin not to believe, not to have trust, not to have hope and love.

Not so easy to trust, love or have hope in something you have no direct experience of. Some may be happy enough being led into a belief system and assuming what the authoritative decree establishes as truth, but like sex, having it is certainly different than being told about it.
To reference your mind... I'd say it was pretty far removed from Biblical Christianity rolleyes.gif
QUOTE(rksingh @ Oct 09, 2015, 05:09 AM) *
Christianity stands on the basic tripod of Hope, Faith and Love. If one reads the quotations I have copied from my Bible, one will get the idea of what sin essentially means: Sin is progressive, personally committed (not inherited), and both forgiven and unforgiven.

You mean if someone reads what you copy and paste, and assumes as you have.. what it stands for.
Sin if understood, can be seen as the innocent emergence of mind into duality (at least from one persepective definition of original sin). An aspect of the soul coming out of omniscient consciousness and entering a temporary container of individuality without bringing the awareness of all that is into duality, in order to innocently enter the game of duality as it was created by the soul prior to birth. That process would be called Karma... wink.gif
QUOTE(rksingh @ Oct 09, 2015, 05:09 AM) *

Now, to me all these have symbolic meanings, too.

Adam signifies the heavenly spirit of Adam, and Eve His human soul. The tree of good and evil (or knowledge) signifies the human world; for the spiritual and divine world is purely good and absolutely luminous, but in the human world is light and darkness, good and evil, exist as opposite conditions.
This presupposes that eve the human soul is less divine that the male aspect of heavenly spirit if you follow the idea that the human soul is created from the spirit of Adam. (Which actually isn't that far removed from superstitious Christianity, which makes women out to be evil and the downfall of man having fallen into temptation and corrupting Adams destiny to remain righteous and in the good graces of God) It also assumes a dualistic position of one, and another.
Like god having sides such as a good, side, a vengeful side, a compassionate side, a creative side.. all dual in nature and description. Mans interpretation of the divine, or a human created God. wink.gif
QUOTE(rksingh @ Oct 09, 2015, 05:09 AM) *

The meaning of the serpent is attachment to the human world. This attachment of the spirit to the human world led the soul and spirit of Adam from the world of freedom to the world of bondage and caused him to turn from the kingdom of God to the human world. When the soul and spirit of Adam entered the human world, he came out from the paradise of freedom and fell into the world of bondage. From the height of purity, glory and goodness, he entered into the world of good and evil; he descended from unity to differences, to sin. The story is a symbolic presentation of spirit’s attachment to the physical bondage; attachment to the earthly world, in relation to attachment to the spiritual world, is considered as a sin.

Assuming God was not involved where adam fell, or assuming God was fuckin' with Adam and stuck his ass into the world where he became attached, or simply cast him out without the knowledge and awareness of who he was so he became attached to a different memory and experience. The story gets more twisted every time some moron decides to interpret scripture from the side of duality rather than the understanding of both duality and non-duality.
Attachment to duality is attributed to sensory orientation or ego, not the soul. The soul cannot, nor will it ever become corrupted. That is the rather superstitious rant of the ego on self righteousness and without the knowledge and experience of Union.
There is a quote from the Bible where Jesus gets into a discussion with the pharisees about his position as the "Son of God". They accuse him of blasphemy and attacking their authority over man in deciding for man what God is and wants. Jesus says to them (referring to their own scripture) "Does it not say in your ancient scripture that ye are gods?" In another quoted scripture he says" I and my Father are one. What the Father witnesses in me I witness in him" signifying the unity between his dual nature of being in a human body with his Godlike infinite nature of the divine soul or consciousness that is one with everything.
QUOTE(rksingh @ Oct 09, 2015, 05:09 AM) *

It is sin to get away from the Essence of Oneness, from perfection of Eden to imperfections of the earthly existence, going farther from exaltation to humiliation.
I'd like to think what is created by God is perfect unless God is imperfect. Hot is not better than cold when you are trying to cool something. It is simply a different point of view and each has its purpose and application.
Ever heard the saying, "one man's junk is another's treasure"? its not the object of perception that causes suffering but rather the interpretation of the object within the mind of the observer. All suffering is self inflicted. The object has no power over an individual unless the individual gives the object power over him/her. Such is the nature of Satan (which is a derivative of a latin word describing the ignorance and delusion of ego and its attachment to self inflicted suffering).
It's not bad to leave your home and visit another place, but to forget it altogether and have no place to return or reference is disconcerting. One need only remember and what was forgotten was not really lost but misplaced within the ego's references to reality. The nature of the soul is that it is always connected to the body (as long as it is functioning correctly). One is never separated other than in thought or memory. We are taught from birth and influenced by our parents beliefs as well as societal beliefs or social mores. We assume those who are seen as the authority know what they are talking about. This blind acceptance is known as the biblical "Beast".
QUOTE(rksingh @ Oct 09, 2015, 05:09 AM) *

Let’s also remember Adam had no father or mother, he was created by God in His own image, with absolute perfection; he was a living soul; he came into existence from the Spirit of life.
The image of God? Hmm. this means the physical manifestation of immortality, omniscience, omnipresence and infinity as spirit in its entirety can be contained in an image because God can do anything? Gimme a break.
QUOTE(rksingh @ Oct 09, 2015, 05:09 AM) *


I Corinthians 15-22 states; “For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.” If I try to understand its meaning, it seems Adam is the physical nature while Christ is the spiritual nature; that is, the physical nature is born of Adam, but the spiritual nature is born from the bounty of the Holy Spirit. This spiritual nature of all perfections, appears through the breath of the Holy Spirit, which is light, spirituality, exaltation, love, grace, glory, kindness to all, the essence of life. Christ is the central point of the Holy Spirit; He is born of the Holy Spirit (i.e His Reality does not descend from Adam). Adam is the cause of physical life of mankind; he is the father of human beings, but he cannot provide spiritual life. Christ is the cause of spiritual life of man; his is the spiritual fatherhood.
Yer back to beginnings and endings, cause and effect. If Christ is the spiritual nature and Adam the physical, why does one presuppose power over another unless one exists without the other either in nature or in divinity? This sort of follows the dualistic nature of God. The good side, the vindictive side etc. etc.
Without having an experience of God, the images created within the ego's reference to duality is gonna be like looking thru glass covered by beliefs and experiences without understanding, truth or knowledge.
QUOTE(rksingh @ Oct 09, 2015, 05:09 AM) *

Perhaps, we can also say sin is the consequence of the power of the physical world (as exemplified by Lucifer, who was its captive, evincing anger, jealousy, hatred, pride, avarice, cruelty, ignorance etc.) and its demands, imperfections, sufferings and death. The Reality of Christ, the “quickening spirit”, is a promise of eternal life, happiness, heaven.

You can say anything, but experience, that leads to experience is often a superior way to knowledge.
QUOTE(rksingh @ Oct 09, 2015, 05:09 AM) *

I doubt it is reasonable to believe that by eating the forbidden fruit, Adam became the cause of the death of humanity. If Adam was a sinner, what is the sin of Abraham? What is the fault of Isaac, or of Joseph?

In fact, through Christ, the believing souls attain absolute perfection.

Or Christ being something other than Jesus, is built in and activated by free will.


QUOTE(rksingh @ Oct 09, 2015, 05:09 AM) *

Quotations on SIN, it’s nature, and salvation from sin from the BIBLE:
1. “Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of law.” (I John 3:4)
2. “All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.” (I John 5:17)
3. “And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.” (Romans 14:23)
4. “But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.” (Genesis 3:6)
5. “But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then, when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth for the death.” (James 1: 14-15)
6. Sin is the ways of the ungodly (Psalm 1)
(Reading the Psalm 1 and the quotations 4 and 5, it appears sin is progressive.)
7. “But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.” (Isaiah 59:2)
8. “The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.” (Ezekiel 18:20)
9. “But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.” (Mark 10:14; Also, Luke 18:16)
(Quotations 7, 8, 9 indicate that sin is personally committed, and is not inherited.)
10. “Wherefore I say unto you, all manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.” (Matthew 12:31)
cf: “But they rebelled, and vexed his holy spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, and he fought against them.” (Isaiah 63:10) “And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.”(Ephesians 4:30)
11. “But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.” (Mark 3:29).
12. “And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.” (Luke 12:10)
13. “For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentence; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame, … But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.” (Hebrews 6:4-8).
14. “For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, …. of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the convenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?” (Hebrews 10:26-30) etc.
(Quotations 10 to 14 indicate that certain sins are unforgiven.)
15. “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.” (Mark 16:16)
16. “ Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord” (Acts 3:19); “Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.” (Acts 2:38)
(The quotations indicate that sins can be forgiven by repentence, which is the return from disobedience to obedience, from deprivation from God to unity with Him, partaking of His knowledge and Love and Sprit.)
17. Jesus will save people from their sins. (Matthew 1:21; Mark 16:16; Act 2:38; 22:16 etc)
“But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.” (Romans 6:17-18)
(Salvation from sin through belief, hope, faith and love in Christ, through righteousness in Spirit).

(The paper was written in April 1997)

-Dr Ram Krishna Singh, Professor (HAG), Indian School of Mines, Dhanbad 826004, India
I'd say you are lacking in the integration of non-dualistic science due to your wanting to be polite towards Christian beliefs (probably because you lack experience in Christian beliefs or its origins, as well as eastern spiritual science)... and, based on your predilection towards sex (being that the majority of your posts are in erotic poetry) you kinda failed in achieving any real believable authority in regards to biblical references.

I like these biblical quotes: "Those that have the eyes to see and the ears to hear will see and hear" and "let the dead bury the dead."

Trying to be politically correct without actually leading one to the greater truth after experiencing it, is simply "the blind leading the blind"

After reading your poem on masturbation, I think you achieved a certain expertise in that regard (at least when it comes to mental masturbation). wink.gif

btw.. are you by any chance a Muslim? You have a certain resonant approach regarding sin and sex that feels kinda muslim-ish. huh.gif



Thanks Joesus for your interest in what I wrote and for sharing your critical analysis of my, perhaps non-philosophical view of a subject which is highly debatable, philosophically, religiously, and spiritually.
There are other forums for mental masturbation, but if I express sex in my poetry, there is a definite viewpoint.

In the subjective process of creation, human body is a picture of the human soul I celebrate to understand the world and the self. And, it is normal for a poet to create out of himself or herself: whatever outside they see excites the inner vision. I see sex as truth, rendering the experience with beauty and power. Making poetry sexy is focusing on the flesh to enter the spirit. My erotic haiku also seek to explore the body, or
naked physicality, leading to love of the spirit, or man and woman as one in coitus. The fleshly unity is the reality, the passage to experience divinity.

In fact there is so much lived and observed in one’s sexual life but hardly fully expressed. My deep interest in erotic poetry often makes me compose “erotiku” that happen “to relive a thought,” or re-enact sex acts, or re-create a felt or lived experience of a moment. Haiku offers a good medium to express love and sex
subtly as well as explicitly, yet leaving lots of room for the reader’s imagination.

I consider the expression of passionate sex in my poetry as the internalized substitute or antidote to the fast dehumanizing existence without, and ever in conflict with my search for life, search for meaning in a sort of routinized, boring existence. By writing brief personal lyrics, including tanka and haiku, or confining myself to the privacy of lovemaking, I make my life itself a work of art, and enlarge myself to the universal
sameness of human feelings.

I see woman, and her nudity, as the mainspring of our being (and art), shaping the psyche and constituting the sensory experience. She is eternal and there is no poetry without her. I sing of woman who is both my passion and interest, who is the balance point of various beings, the very cause and end of life, perhaps the means to rediscover the original magic of life.

Need I stress, therefore, that I view woman as equal to man, as human being equally endeavoring to find, become and manifest the Divine. To quote The Mother (of Sri Aurobindo Ashram, Pondicherry), "... with the same education and the same possibilities, there is no reason to make a categorical distinction, final and imperative, between what we call men women. For us, human beings are the expression of a single soul. It is true,... that Nature has differentiated her expressions for the satisfaction of her needs and the realisation of her purpose, but if our needs and purposes are of another kind and we don't recognise the physical ends conceived by Nature as final, and absolute, then we can try to develop consciousness on another line." (CWM,Vol.8, p.238).

--R.K.Singh
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post Oct 23, 2015, 08:28 AM
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QUOTE(rksingh @ Oct 23, 2015, 10:45 AM) *


In the subjective process of creation, human body is a picture of the human soul I celebrate to understand the world and the self.
Subjectively speaking, referring to the self/ego (who or what one perceives themselves as., thru the outward oriented senses) as the image of the soul only gives credence to ones beliefs and personal interests.
Studying that image is like studying the image in a mirror. The reference to the image changes with moods and beliefs.

In other words studying the depths of the ocean by looking at the surface of the ocean, will hardly reveal what is below surface appearances. One can spend lifetimes imagining what is there without ever actually diving below the surface and never understanding anything. Turn the senses inward or dive below the surface just once, and it will destroy any illusions of the surface being the face of what is underneath.

Any person can put on appearances and never show what is inside. Often those like yourself, who dwell upon surface appearances never see the depths of the personality, let alone the soul. There is a saying, "beauty is only skin deep, and the ugliness of a shallow mind consumed with surface appearances goes to the bone".
QUOTE(rksingh @ Oct 23, 2015, 10:45 AM) *

And, it is normal for a poet to create out of himself or herself: whatever outside they see excites the inner vision.

And if that inner vision is tied to the relative, then the poet is not so much esoterically/spiritually driven, but rather driven by the flesh, or the image of god, rather than the infinite as god. Sort of like falling in love with a hair follicle rather than experiencing the entire being.
I'm not so much executing judgment on your interests or the nature of poetry and a poets addiction to surface appearances. Just getting back to the spirit of the opening topic regarding the content of the bible and the definition of sin. Your romanticizing of the bible is to you an ideal, yet the essence of the Bible as it was inspired by the enlightened (before it was diluted by poets or religion), is so much more than you or the churches of relative expression have degraded its eternal message.

QUOTE(rksingh @ Oct 23, 2015, 10:45 AM) *
I see sex as truth, rendering the experience with beauty and power.

Yeah I kinda get that. Truth has deeper meanings when philosophy and spirituality come into play, in that Truth becomes something eternal and greater than temporary truths, or externally driven pleasures of the relative bound poet, or the religious extremist. Both the poet and the extremist feel their heart is aligned with THEIR truth, if not THE truth.
Thing is when aligning with THE truth, from the subjective point of view (belief), the ideas are usually inclusive of fear, emotional attachment and superstition. Generally speaking, the Universe is always larger than what a person sees and experiences while living in a forest where all you see are trees.

QUOTE(rksingh @ Oct 23, 2015, 10:45 AM) *
Making poetry sexy is focusing on the flesh to enter the spirit.
Subjectively speaking as you say... Since spirit imbues all things, trying to make the sock reside within the foot seems counterproductive and backwards.

QUOTE(rksingh @ Oct 23, 2015, 10:45 AM) *
My erotic haiku also seek to explore the body, or
naked physicality, leading to love of the spirit, or man and woman as one in coitus. The fleshly unity is the reality, the passage to experience divinity.
That's a great excuse for most to justify the outward driven senses addictions to the temporary experience of the world. To idealize the personal reality as divine. The problem is, is that one often seeks to idealize their perspective over another as THE WAY to special awareness and experience, placing ones self in a box, where God begins to look like a something, rather than having qualities superior to any object or the subjective experience of an object.
That is how religion creates idols, as well as the authoritative dictates to reside within what is called grace.

Before the time of the Biblical emergence of Jesus, local priests used to pimp their nuns to the locals claiming that you could F**K your way into communion with God. The reality was, that when a person achieves what Abraham Maslow describes as a "Peak Experience" and one feels temporarily enlarged beyond their current state of mind within an altered state of consciousness (temporarily produced by endorphins and happy feelings) they often feel as if they have touched God. But then it goes away.. I suppose a person might become inspired to speak of their experience or even poetically refer to their experience hoping to enliven the past and bring it into the present moment. wink.gif


QUOTE(rksingh @ Oct 23, 2015, 10:45 AM) *

In fact there is so much lived and observed in one’s sexual life but hardly fully expressed.
Mostly due to the special-ness created around it. Being that duality is the reality of sense orientation, the positive and the negative become ritually accepted as the authority.

People in general are afraid to express themselves, period. So they find creative ways to find acceptance and express what they feel will be meaningful to others. Often hypnotizing themselves into feeling they are accomplishing something.

Sex is often used as a means to feel love, when one has none for themselves. The objects of affection become the crutch to feel what is possible within ones self when they are afraid of the world they have no understanding of.
Ask anyone who is an addict. The first high is the precursor to the following attempts to chase what one placed on the alter to God as the spiritual experience.

IF the infinite could be contained within ANY experience, it wouldn't be infinite! cool.gif


QUOTE(rksingh @ Oct 23, 2015, 10:45 AM) *
My deep interest in erotic poetry often makes me compose “erotiku” that happen “to relive a thought,” or re-enact sex acts, or re-create a felt or lived experience of a moment. Haiku offers a good medium to express love and sex
subtly as well as explicitly, yet leaving lots of room for the reader’s imagination.

If you or anyone needs to recreate a past experience to feel full in the present moment, that is more of a psychological shortcoming, than an artistic expression.

But then I have no authority to dictate to you what you should or shouldn't believe. I just have a special interest in your biblical references to Sex and Sin and such... rolleyes.gif


QUOTE(rksingh @ Oct 23, 2015, 10:45 AM) *

I consider the expression of passionate sex in my poetry as the internalized substitute or antidote to the fast dehumanizing existence without, and ever in conflict with my search for life, search for meaning in a sort of routinized, boring existence. By writing brief personal lyrics, including tanka and haiku, or confining myself to the privacy of lovemaking, I make my life itself a work of art, and enlarge myself to the universal
sameness of human feelings.
You create illusions to escape reality in your search for meaning in life, which escapes you. Yeah I got that.
You feel life is dehumanizing because being human for you has a certain look and feel about it, which is generally lacking sex and naked women. Which is why you try to make up for the lack with thoughts and the expressions of sex and naked women.
There are those like you who would prefer children or same sex partners rather than a person of the opposite sex. They too have been know to write their own poetry.

Like I said before.. I'm not here to dictate what you should or shouldn't do, but I do have an interest in your reference to the Bible and Sin, and you glorification naked women and sex.


QUOTE(rksingh @ Oct 23, 2015, 10:45 AM) *

I see woman, and her nudity, as the mainspring of our being (and art), shaping the psyche and constituting the sensory experience. She is eternal and there is no poetry without her. I sing of woman who is both my passion and interest, who is the balance point of various beings, the very cause and end of life, perhaps the means to rediscover the original magic of life.
Until you become androgynous with your expression, your attachment to sex will bind you to the relative world and your escapism into women as your god of choice.

Interesting idea though.. Imagine the priesthood that has glorified the tender bum of a young man in shaping the psyche of young men as they were poetically lured into the priests chambers to perform an act of God realization. ohmy.gif

Just playing the devils advocate here. smile.gif


QUOTE(rksingh @ Oct 23, 2015, 10:45 AM) *

Need I stress, therefore, that I view woman as equal to man, as human being equally endeavoring to find, become and manifest the Divine.

I doubt it. If you had the same love for the male form as you do women I might believe you.


QUOTE(rksingh @ Oct 23, 2015, 10:45 AM) *
To quote The Mother (of Sri Aurobindo Ashram, Pondicherry), "... with the same education and the same possibilities, there is no reason to make a categorical distinction, final and imperative, between what we call men women. For us, human beings are the expression of a single soul. It is true,... that Nature has differentiated her expressions for the satisfaction of her needs and the realisation of her purpose, but if our needs and purposes are of another kind and we don't recognise the physical ends conceived by Nature as final, and absolute, then we can try to develop consciousness on another line." (CWM,Vol.8, p.238).

--R.K.Singh
I'm going to break down that quote for you from a different point of view than one of a mind obsessed with women and sex.

QUOTE
there is no reason to make a categorical distinction, final and imperative, between what we call men women. For us, human beings are the expression of a single soul.
There is one consciousness. Men and women as well as everything living and not, is the expression/creation of that one consciousness. Consciousness/spirit/God is without gender regardless of its ability to seemingly separate wholeness into parts .

QUOTE
It is true,... that Nature has differentiated her expressions for the satisfaction of her needs and the realisation of her purpose,
Loosely translated: Nature as an absolute, has no need, but in relative terms has qualities that can be seen heard and felt, and... at different levels of awareness or levels of consciousness, nature can be perceived as multidimensional and infinite.
In general, at the waking state level, dreams become superior and reason begins to define natures purpose in order to entertain the mind, in its need to escape what you call the dehumanizing effect.

QUOTE

but if our needs and purposes are of another kind and we don't recognise the physical ends conceived by Nature as final, and absolute, then we can try to develop consciousness on another line."

If our needs and purposes are idealized (subjective) rather than "objective" or according to the nature of the SELF (Soul) rather than the self (ego or sense oriented individual isolated within beliefs and individual perceptions), we can develop consciousness or awareness beyond duality. That is the evolution of human consciousness or enlightenment.

The tree of life represents the human nervous system. The apple, any manifestation of the mind/consciousness/soul. When one becomes obsessed with what is created and absorbed in that creation, reference to the creator (reference to the immortal infinite potential of the Self within) is separated from ones self and ones awareness by simple distraction. Yet not so simple that the distraction becomes the lesser state of human consciousness where suffering occurs and a person feels victim to their own Self or God as its manifest property.
The science of Union (yoga) recognizes the unmanifest consciousness as supreme and the creator of the flesh which seemingly brings the emergent consciousness of chemical arrangement into play. All that runs in the background within the subconscious mind runs the machinery of duality.
When the relative witness to the nature of duality steps into the theater and loses it's awareness of who or what it is by immersing itself into the story and the screenplay, that becomes the quintessential representation of the eating of the apple of the tree of life, or the tree of knowledge where knowledge is based on duality. Being that the senses are oriented outward from birth by conditioning the spiritual nature of man becomes a religious trek or pathway, to find the elusive nature of ones self, which comes with the packaging at birth.

QUOTE
"It is true,... that Nature has differentiated her expressions for the satisfaction of her needs and the realisation of her purpose"
Two things come to mind. (1) Purpose, reason, intent are all ideals qualified by someone, based on a value system. The Nature of nature is not to express value but rather to express potential. Like light radiating from a light bulb when applying current to its filament. It is the nature of its construction. Man chooses to find a purpose according to mans idea of itself and the universe. There is no God in any religion that is not compartmented into human qualities where there is need, likes, dislikes and emotional qualities that force it into actions of compassion, love or even vengeance.
(2) The sexing of God. Calling nature "HER". In the patriarchal society. God the unmanifest has been given the identity of the unwavering everlasting male presence, while nature, or the manifestation of God (duality) feminine characterization. The Christian cross is an example. The vertical represents the male unwavering eternal quality of the God the Father or the unmanifest (single quality of spirit within all things). While the horizontal represents the ever extending (infinite possible reflections) of the unmanifest potential as it appears within duality as activity or expression, experience and relative knowledge.

Those who are obsessed with the goddess or the form as the pathway to the absolute get lost in all the ideas of relative measure as God is manufactured out of every idea, placed ahead of every experience where the ego looks for what is projected, ever missing the subtle which exists within everything. Man spends an entire lifetime seeking what is within, because it looks for love in all the wrong places. It looks like you, in poetic fantasy and illusion towards pleasures that are personal idols, which are distractions rather than pathways.

Not to say it's not possible to trip over something and find the obvious, but the state of India as it is now, in comparison to what it was when it was at it's spiritual peak, is testimony to its deluded state of understanding of scripture as it was composed by those, that actually were present to hear and comprehend the words of the saints such as Buddha or Christ.

Your attempt to assimilate Mother Mirra's quote into your belief system is self evident of that same deluded state.

You cast your attention towards idols to find solace where you heart and mind are troubled. It is just as easy to still the mind and find peace within any time place or circumstance when the self is united with the Self in liberation of the mind from the attachment to objects that are placed within systems of measure, where happiness is separated from joy, and comfort is measured by stimulation of the senses based on outward appearances and material events.

Most love as it is found in the world today is born of attachment. We naturally feel closer to our children, to our husband, to our friends, because we spend more time with them, because we have more experiences with them, because we know them better than other people. The trouble with this attached kind of love is that it is subject to its opposite: if the loved person is no longer there or no longer reciprocates the love, we feel pain. Carried on far enough, such frustrated love can turn to hate.
Unconditional love, on the other hand, loves everyone equally and without the slightest reservation. Unconditional love is the most significant characteristic of full enlightenment, of Unity When one experiences unconditional love, every moment is filled with inexpressible joy; the bliss of feeling for every single person and thing is unlimited. Enlightenment is not a dry, super-conscious state in which one feels less. On the contrary, in full enlightenment, every sensual experience, every mental experience, every emotional experience is lived to the maximum. And that maximum is not a relative thing, determined by comparison or judgment: that maximum is determined by the very nature of the infinite One.
One of the most ancient names for the Absolute is Sat-Chit-Ananda: absolute bliss consciousness or eternal bliss consciousness. The bliss that is experienced when one unconditionally loves is absolute, it is infinite, it is eternal. This is why the Path of the Sages is considered so vastly superior to the Path of the Gods. The eternal bliss of divine realization, of unconditional love, so far outweighs the temporary joys discoverable by following the ego, there can be no valid comparison. It could be said that unconditional love is like the sunlight; relative happiness is like the starlight, but that falls far short of describing the reality of the essential difference between the two.

In the Upanishads, those ancient texts of Unity, there is an interesting passage describing the bliss of full human realization:
This is the inquiry concerning bliss.
Let there be a youth, a good youth, well read, prompt in action, steady in mind and strong in body. Let this whole earth be full of wealth for him. That is one human bliss.
That which is a hundred times the human bliss, that is one bliss of the human angels — and also the bliss of a human in Unity.
That which is a hundred times the bliss of the human angels, that is one bliss of the divine angels — and also the bliss of a human in Unity.

That which is a hundred times the bliss of the divine angels, that is one bliss of the Fathers in their long-enduring world — and also the bliss of a human in Unity.
That which is a hundred times the bliss of the Fathers in their long-enduring world, that is one bliss of the gods who are born so by birth — and also the bliss of a human in Unity.
That which is a hundred times the bliss of the gods who are born so by birth, that is one bliss of the gods by work — and also the bliss of a human in Unity.
That which is a hundred times the bliss of the gods by work, that is one bliss of the gods — and also the bliss of a human in Unity.
That which is a hundred times the bliss of the gods, that is one bliss of the Lord of Evolving Consciousness — and also the bliss of a human in Unity.
That which is a hundred times the bliss of the Lord of Evolving Consciousness, that is one bliss of the Lord of the Unbounded — and also the bliss of a human in Unity.
That which is a hundred times the bliss of the Lord of the Unbounded, that is one bliss of God the Creator — and also the bliss of a human in Unity.
That which is a hundred times the bliss of God the Creator, that is one bliss of God the Father — and also the bliss of a human in Unity.


"I and my Father are one, what the Father witnesses in me I witness within the Father" -Jesus- A statement of Unity, a statement where consciousness recognizes consciousness. Manifestation and the UN-Manifest are one with each other. Ever present and ever existent. The immortal Self expressing itself in duality ad infinitum...
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