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> Totalitarianism, Grim and getting grimmer
Rick
post May 03, 2006, 03:24 PM
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http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0501-31.htm
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maximus242
post May 03, 2006, 03:27 PM
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.. damn bastards.
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Übermensch
post May 08, 2006, 10:52 PM
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Profile: Leo Strauss - Fascist Godfather of the Neo-Cons

QUOTE
The hallmark of Strauss' approach to philosophy was his hatred of the modern world, his belief in a totalitarian system, run by "philosophers," who rejected all universal principles of natural law, but saw their mission as absolute rulers, who lied and deceived a foolish "populist" mass, and used both religion and politics as a means of disseminating myths that kept the general population in clueless servitude.
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Rick
post May 09, 2006, 09:24 AM
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Yeah, it's a power trip alright. Perhaps will-to-power is merely a corrupted form of will-to-love resulting in will-to-love-self. That is, the Nietzchean philosopher has simply not yet developed an understanding of the identity principle: universality of self implies that one helps himself when one helps others. As participants in the life process, we're all in this together. As the Dalai Lama said, when one sees one's self in others, whom is he to harm?
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Übermensch
post May 09, 2006, 10:50 AM
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hhhmmm... I hope you didn't mistake me for endorsing Straussian philosophy, Rick. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

QUOTE
universality of self implies that one helps himself when one helps others. As participants in the life process, we're all in this together.


You're right, I really "don't get" the Universality precept. wink.gif
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Rick
post May 09, 2006, 11:02 AM
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For a little while there I actually did think that. I have had some too-close knowledge of some self-loving types who really do belong in prison. They have never appeared as intelligent as you, however, and that could be a truly dangerous combination. Thanks for assurance in the political direction.

As far as "getting" the universality of self thing, all I can say is that it's very closely related to empathy. Those criminal types I mentioned (one described to me the joys of rape, for example) are all lacking in this quality. I believe it may have a genetic component (not born with a full deck, so to speak).
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Culture
post May 10, 2006, 05:21 AM
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QUOTE(Rick @ May 03, 03:24 PM) *


This article is a good example of partisan propaganda (I mean talk about loaded words!). It does not even feign balance or attempt real analysis.

As such it is mostly bunk with an occasional valid point. It is an insult to balanced thinkers and those who understand the bipartisan reality of politics.
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Rick
post May 10, 2006, 08:45 AM
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Gee, I would have thought that Übermensch's link had lent some balance. Here it is again, in case you missed it:

http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2003/3011...le_strauss.html

What do you recommend for balance? Fox News?

Here's another link on this topic:

http://www.alternet.org/story/15935

Biased or balanced?
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Culture
post May 10, 2006, 09:47 PM
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QUOTE(Rick @ May 10, 08:45 AM) *

Gee, I would have thought that Übermensch's link had lent some balance. Here it is again, in case you missed it:

http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2003/3011...le_strauss.html

What do you recommend for balance? Fox News?

Here's another link on this topic:

http://www.alternet.org/story/15935

Biased or balanced?


If you mix equal parts of the stuff posted on this forum and Fox News, you'd get
something resembling standard far-left paranoia.

I find the irony of people who are free to whine about neocon
totalitarianism and Bush's endless crimes very funny. Even funnier than
the recurring theme of Bush as both evil genius and village idiot. If
any of the whines were true, surely the whiners - most of whom happily
continue to live in the Land of the Free - would find themselves shut
up, arrested, held without trial, tortured or simply disappeared? Surely
their demigods - Gnome Chomsky, Gory Vidal, Sad Silly Cindy Sheehan,
Fibbing Fisk, Prat Pilger and the Hollywood Establishment - would demand
political asylum in Cuba, and wouldn't be allowed back by the Homeland
Security Enforcement Death Squad after their breathless chinwags with
freedom-hero revolutionistas like Hugo Chav?
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Rick
post May 11, 2006, 10:55 AM
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So do you think the invasion of Iraq was a good idea?

Here's one of those valid points (interspersed among the alleged bunk):

"Along with spying comes official secrecy. The Bush regime is reclassifying millions of pages of harmless, marginal documents to prevent public scrutiny. It demands access to the papers of the deceased investigative reporter Jack Anderson so they can be reclassified. It has moved to prosecute reporters, government officials and even lobbyists who have use documents in ways the administration doesn't like."

Here's an article to back it up:

http://chronicle.com/free/2006/04/2006041801n.htm
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Übermensch
post May 11, 2006, 02:01 PM
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QUOTE
Culture: If any of the whines were true, surely the whiners - most of whom happily continue to live in the Land of the Free - would find themselves shut up, arrested, held without trial, tortured or simply disappeared?


In a democracy, what is important is not overt but covert control. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_model

Both political parties have their warts, and together both political parties represent the "political establishment". However, this is not to say that one can't judge the recent neo-con surge as the most dangerous political development in modern US history.

What is the best method for dealing with geo-political instability and asymmetrical warfare?

I've found that the article listed below is one of the most compelling and easily digestible presentations of what constitutes a logical foreign policy.

Terrorist Strategy 101: a quiz
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maximus242
post May 11, 2006, 02:04 PM
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tongue.gif aye indeed this is why I argue that no real democracy exists, only the illusion of one.
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Rick
post May 11, 2006, 03:01 PM
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Excellent links to the propaganda model and terrorist strategy. Thanks, Übermensch.
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Rick
post May 11, 2006, 03:05 PM
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Here's another link from Common Dreams, titled "NSA Has Massive Database of Americans' Phone Calls".

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0511-09.htm

Common Dreams is clearly labeled "Progressive Views" so nobody should get his shorts all twisted in a knot about it not being dispassionate analysis.
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Rick
post May 11, 2006, 03:17 PM
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Here's some more "standard far-left paranoia" from the Johns Hopkins University computer science department:

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0511-11.htm
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Übermensch
post May 11, 2006, 06:50 PM
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Go back to sleep America, your government is in control.
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Übermensch
post May 11, 2006, 07:10 PM
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QUOTE(Rick @ May 09, 03:02 PM) *

As far as "getting" the universality of self thing, all I can say is that it's very closely related to empathy. Those criminal types I mentioned (one described to me the joys of rape, for example) are all lacking in this quality. I believe it may have a genetic component (not born with a full deck, so to speak).


Fortunately my biological imperatives operate within normal parameters. A consequentialist ethic would dictate that such extreme acts of deviation (ie, rape) should be dealt with in much the same way that a deadly disease should be quarantined.

QUOTE
They have never appeared as intelligent as you, however, and that could be a truly dangerous combination. Thanks for assurance in the political direction.


Dangerous...like working myself into a D&*(AwrwerR123PA initiative that grants me ease of access to interfacing technologies? Muhahahah... (I'm being tongue and cheek, of course)
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code buttons
post May 11, 2006, 07:36 PM
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Ha! Ha! Ha!




Übermensch your avatar is hilarious! I kept laughing for like 10 minutes! As I watched it I couldn't help but picture it was Joesus (mentally) masturbating till his (eye) balls fell off(sorry, Joesus, but you are the one who coined the term first, I think)! The blood, the carnage! Oh, me god! You just gave a whole new meaning to the computer slang: "to continue punch any key"
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Übermensch
post May 11, 2006, 08:09 PM
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heehee... Naturally, as with any work of art, it is open to interpretation. Perhaps because of the "blue screen of death" I had the pleasure of experiencing around a year ago my original thoughts were, "Got computer problems?"
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Culture
post May 12, 2006, 12:50 AM
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So do you think the invasion of Iraq was a good idea?
[/quote]

What does that have to do with anything?

QUOTE(Rick @ May 11, 10:55 AM) *


Here's one of those valid points (interspersed among the alleged bunk):

"Along with spying comes official secrecy. The Bush regime is reclassifying millions of pages of harmless, marginal documents to prevent public scrutiny. It demands access to the papers of the deceased investigative reporter Jack Anderson so they can be reclassified. It has moved to prosecute reporters, government officials and even lobbyists who have use documents in ways the administration doesn't like."

Here's an article to back it up:

http://chronicle.com/free/2006/04/2006041801n.htm


It's pointless trying to untangle the truths from the half-truths, the
faleshoods, the interpretations, the speculation and the opinion in that
article.

Especially if you're going to describe classification of documents as
"what the government doesn't like".
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Rick
post May 12, 2006, 10:54 AM
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QUOTE(Culture @ May 12, 01:50 AM) *
QUOTE

So do you think the invasion of Iraq was a good idea?


What does that have to do with anything?

Well, the topic of this thread is "Totalitatianism", and as the centerpiece of the current adminsistration's historical legacy, the invasion of Iraq, in my view, may be (unconsciously, perhaps, maybe not) intended to further totalitarian goals.

In my experience, those who like the job this administration is doing seem to think that invading Iraq was a good idea, first to protect America from WMD, and later when the WMDs didn't materialize, to bring democracy and freedom to oppressed people in the region. Hence, my question was intended to get a better idea of your political views.
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Culture
post May 12, 2006, 08:32 PM
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QUOTE(Rick @ May 12, 10:54 AM) *

QUOTE(Culture @ May 12, 01:50 AM) *
QUOTE

So do you think the invasion of Iraq was a good idea?


What does that have to do with anything?

Well, the topic of this thread is "Totalitatianism", and as the centerpiece of the current adminsistration's historical legacy, the invasion of Iraq, in my view, may be (unconsciously, perhaps, maybe not) intended to further totalitarian goals.

In my experience, those who like the job this administration is doing seem to think that invading Iraq was a good idea, first to protect America from WMD, and later when the WMDs didn't materialize, to bring democracy and freedom to oppressed people in the region. Hence, my question was intended to get a better idea of your political views.



I support liberation by force when it is the best or only option
(dominant strategy). France 1944 to Iraq 2003 and beyond. Second best
use of armed forces (after disaster relief).

I want democracy to succeed in Iraq and the Islamists to lose. No
hatred of any western political leader could ever make me wish that
the people of Iraq are sacrificed to the malignant and repulsive
Islamist fanatics who just last month killed over 1000 Iraqi civilians.

Tell me will you support armed intervention in Darfur?

Keep in mind Osama called for the Ummah to join the fight against the
Christians.

Any country or group that joins the relief effort or send peace-
keepers will get the same treatment as all the other countries that
displease the Islamist International.

Originally it was just the coalition of the willing. Now it has
expanded to include Sweden, Norway and France thanks to the cartoons.

Are you ready to defy Al Qaeda? Where do you stand with them? What
about the Iranians? How much Iranianisation would you tolerate in
your country?

Hanging gays?
Stoning adulterers (including rape victims)?
Oppressing religious minorities?
Openly supporting genocide?
Censoring all media?

Here is your chance to set out your standards, limits, principles and
proposals for dealing with the greatest illiberal threat since the
Nazism.
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Rick
post May 17, 2006, 02:33 PM
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QUOTE(Culture @ May 12, 09:32 PM) *
... Are you ready to defy Al Qaeda? Where do you stand with them? What
about the Iranians? ...

We should have assisted in Darfur two years ago when it would have done the most good. Unfortunately, we seemed to be focusing on Iraq. The Republicans still want us to think there was some link between the Iraqi tyrant and Al Quaeda. Had we captured Osama bin Laden instead, perhaps we would have a better position (militarily, politically, diplomatically, and economically) today.

Although Shiite Iranians speak a different language (Farsi) than the Sunni Arab core of Al Quaeda, they also represent a repressive theocratic movement. I do not wish to see that movement expand outside Iran (although we seem to have set the stage for that very thing by invading Iraq). However, if we use the pretext of "liberation from oppression" to invade every Islamic nation, then we will become extensively involved in a very bloody war.

Isn't it ironic that the invasion of Iraq was not to overthrow Islamic tyranny, but tyranny of the secular sort? Now, it's theocratic Islamic tyranny in Iraq that we need to worry about. Had the Republicans practiced the conservatism they preach, they would have looked before they leaped.
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morpheous
post Jul 29, 2006, 08:21 AM
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QUOTE(Übermensch @ May 08, 10:52 PM) *

Profile: Leo Strauss - Fascist Godfather of the Neo-Cons

QUOTE
The hallmark of Strauss' approach to philosophy was his hatred of the modern world, his belief in a totalitarian system, run by "philosophers," who rejected all universal principles of natural law, but saw their mission as absolute rulers, who lied and deceived a foolish "populist" mass, and used both religion and politics as a means of disseminating myths that kept the general population in clueless servitude.



Hypocrites who speak in support of natural law and place themselves in a hierarchal position do so at the expense of natural law.
Natual law is a function of holographic "structure". No beginning, no end , no centre, yet every point is a centre unto itself.


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