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post Feb 22, 2011, 03:16 PM
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-lanza...l?ref=fb&src=sp
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Jakare
post Feb 22, 2011, 09:03 PM
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Really interesting, but my investigation brought me to this:

http://nirmukta.com/2009/12/14/biocentrism...cious-universe/

I have no doubt about your intelligence and creativity (dont get me wrong im not saying your perfect) but i would like to know if you do think that is a fair criticism like i do.
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post Feb 23, 2011, 12:11 PM
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you see.... that's the thing about theories, they are all just theories! I think what is important is knowing what current theories there are out there and how they match and hold up against each other! This one is interesting.... I am still trying to wrap my head around what ramifications of a theory like this could arise.... and of these are any of them applicable across the planes!


I've only read a bit of the link you provided but do plan to try to get through to the end!
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post Feb 23, 2011, 12:48 PM
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tlön,_Uqbar,_Orbis_Tertius

.... visions in an idealistically influenced future "One of the major themes of "Tlön, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius" is that ideas ultimately manifest themselves in the physical world"

"material reality may be subject to reshaping by ideas, but apparently it is not entirely without resistance"

"physical objects being willed into existence by the force of imagination"
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post Feb 23, 2011, 07:23 PM
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QUOTE(Jakare @ Feb 23, 2011, 12:03 AM) *

Really interesting, but my investigation brought me to this:

http://nirmukta.com/2009/12/14/biocentrism...cious-universe/

I have no doubt about your intelligence and creativity (dont get me wrong im not saying your perfect) but i would like to know if you do think that is a fair criticism like i do.

ok, i've finished and yes I do think it is a fair criticism! The author clearly has complete disdain for deepak chopra and dissected him thoroughly
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Jakare
post Feb 24, 2011, 03:40 PM
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Good, thats what i thought. It is just i dont like to rely only on my opinion.
The link is a long and hard reading (for me at least as english is not my language) but completly worth it.
The page itself take my attention aswell. Good things are going on in India.
Im glad the world seems to be filled by intelligent and wise people and keep rising up.
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post Feb 24, 2011, 05:07 PM
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QUOTE(Jakare @ Feb 24, 2011, 11:40 PM) *

Im glad the world seems to be filled by intelligent and wise people and keep rising up.


I would say the world is filled with both intelligence and ignorance. People make choices to take a position toward one thing or the other, and then there are some who can pull intelligence and truth out of a mixture of conjecture and belief even if they don't like someone and what they say.

Not always do a majority of opinions spring forth from intelligence or truth.
Not always does rationale born from ignorance give truth to maintaining intelligence.

Opinion is only the sifting of relative truths based on personal experience and or beliefs which constantly change.
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post Feb 24, 2011, 08:10 PM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ Feb 25, 2011, 02:07 AM) *

QUOTE(Jakare @ Feb 24, 2011, 11:40 PM) *

Im glad the world seems to be filled by intelligent and wise people and keep rising up.


I would say the world is filled with both intelligence and ignorance. People make choices to take a position toward one thing or the other, and then there are some who can pull intelligence and truth out of a mixture of conjecture and belief even if they don't like someone and what they say.

Not always do a majority of opinions spring forth from intelligence or truth.
Not always does rationale born from ignorance give truth to maintaining intelligence.

Opinion is only the sifting of relative truths based on personal experience and or beliefs which constantly change.


Before i could mainly see only the ignorant so the world has changed or something has changed inside me.
Anyway on someways i feel like we are on the early spring of a conciousness awakening. Here on internet all the time beautifull intellects blossom in front of the world showing their good ideas, creating, making proyects, helping others...
Some countries in north-africa are fighting right now for their freedom. Asia is not the third world any more...
Now that i am at university i can see how loads of people try to scape from the ignorant state.
Am i being too positive?

Always is a forbidden word, uh? Opinions are just valid or not but never exact.
I think (and i can be wrong) that some lies are needed as stages to get to higher knowledge. So whats the problem? as long as your opinions are the best of you on a specific moment and you keep them open to the change your on the right direction.
If in a specific moment i find a relative truth which is better or "less relative for my specific moment" i will defenitely follow it with passion.
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post Feb 24, 2011, 08:12 PM
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[/quote]
and then there are some who can pull intelligence and truth out of a mixture of conjecture and belief even if they don't like someone and what they say.
[/quote]

Interesting but...Ups!!! i just notice this is going a little bit off topic... Does it matters? Let me ask this question:

What intelligence and truth can be pulled out from the cosmological biocentrism?

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post Feb 25, 2011, 10:03 AM
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QUOTE
We've been taught our consciousness -− and everything else in the world -− flows like an arrow in one direction from the cradle to the grave. But an amazing set of experiments suggest the present and the future are entangled, and that events in the future may influence things happening in the world now.


The past present and future exist NOW. It's not so much that the future influences the past or the present but that the present or the past includes its future as it is unfolding. Mostly people are only aware of their past and projections of the possible future which keeps them from experiencing the totality of the now which includes both the past and the future. IF you can still the mind and remove yourself from the mind-chatter of the thousands of repetitive thoughts that you have each day which are based on you emotional attachments to where you have been and where you might be going, your scope of vision expands to see more of where you are.

QUOTE
The past, present and future are inseparably entangled.


This is true, and quantum physics is beginning to expose the fact that the present moment is subject to the influence of our own thoughts. Which in turn means the past and future are subject to change as we change what is in front of us in the present moment.

QUOTE
To be conscious of space and time, he explained, is to transcend them. The mind transcends space and time in the sense that they're for it and it's not in them. Consciousness can't exist simply in space and time, and at the same time be aware of the interrelations of all parts of space and time. In order to have knowledge of objects, it must somehow be part of them.

The way I read (and experience) this, is that Consciousness supports/creates and exists within space and time rather than space and time being the reason consciousness exists. It is a fact however that without the relative experience to acknowledge consciousness as it exists above and beyond the relative world, the relative world cannot accept consciousness within itself. Unfortunately too many believe the lack of an experience of something, means that something doesn't exist.
Consciousness itself can however experience itself without the conditions that space and time include that are imposed by ignorance or the ego.
Like Columbus sailing outward onto the ocean, and the popular belief in an edge of the world trying to contain his enthusiasm to go further. The belief wasn't as real as the fact that the world was round and without the impending edge to fall off of that everyone else presumed to be real.
So as people become more conscious of consciousness itself they (the people) change their beliefs about consciousness itself. So somewhere within the relative measures of belief and superstition exists the reality of Consciousness. Those who have a greater awareness of consciousness itself and have been able to experience it as it transcends space and time can make a statement to that fact. Whether those who disagree can influence them into dropping and forgetting the experience will be tantamount to how stable the experience is.

Proof of the absolute (Consciousness) escapes those who live within boundaries because the absolute cannot be contained within boundaries, and so all idea of proving the absolute will be subject to relative measures and subject to varying beliefs within the experiences of consciousness itself. The subject when argued within a fence of belief is invariably doomed to controversy.
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post Feb 25, 2011, 07:21 PM
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.... talk about thorough dissection wink.gif
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post Feb 25, 2011, 08:15 PM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ Feb 25, 2011, 10:03 AM) *

QUOTE
To be conscious of space and time, he explained, is to transcend them. The mind transcends space and time in the sense that they're for it and it's not in them. Consciousness can't exist simply in space and time, and at the same time be aware of the interrelations of all parts of space and time. In order to have knowledge of objects, it must somehow be part of them.

The way I read (and experience) this, is that Consciousness supports/creates and exists within space and time rather than space and time being the reason consciousness exists. It is a fact however that without the relative experience to acknowledge consciousness as it exists above and beyond the relative world, the relative world cannot accept consciousness within itself. Unfortunately too many believe the lack of an experience of something, means that something doesn't exist.
Consciousness itself can however experience itself without the conditions that space and time include that are imposed by ignorance or the ego.
Like Columbus sailing outward onto the ocean, and the popular belief in an edge of the world trying to contain his enthusiasm to go further. The belief wasn't as real as the fact that the world was round and without the impending edge to fall off of that everyone else presumed to be real.
So as people become more conscious of consciousness itself they (the people) change their beliefs about consciousness itself. So somewhere within the relative measures of belief and superstition exists the reality of Consciousness. Those who have a greater awareness of consciousness itself and have been able to experience it as it transcends space and time can make a statement to that fact. Whether those who disagree can influence them into dropping and forgetting the experience will be tantamount to how stable the experience is.

Proof of the absolute (Consciousness) escapes those who live within boundaries because the absolute cannot be contained within boundaries, and so all idea of proving the absolute will be subject to relative measures and subject to varying beliefs within the experiences of consciousness itself. The subject when argued within a fence of belief is invariably doomed to controversy.

I cant believe it, or better expressed, i havent got any good reason to believe it. So that means... doomed to controversy? That i have had choosen the dark side of the ego or ignorance? Of course, because the counciousness cant be known from within believes boundaries.
You know what Joesus, is imposible to try to disprove such statements. They just cant be prove and any attempt of doing so can be called "doomed controversy-ego-ignorance" from people within the boundaries. Thats just circular reasoning. Your statement relies upon the asumption consciousness cant be experimented from inside time and space free from boundaries (wich is just an opinion) then so if someone try to disprove such thing (wich is imposible) your theory becomes stronger because such person is obviously too blind inside the myst of believes.
Do you have an idea on what a...delicate position would be a person able to believe all the circular reasoning philosophies around? I believe some lies can be productive... for a while.
How do you make a distinction between "being free from believes" and "being able to believe whatever cames".
Isnt such "being free from believes" a believe itself?
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post Feb 25, 2011, 08:31 PM
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QUOTE(Guest @ Feb 26, 2011, 05:15 AM) *

I cant believe it, or better expressed, i havent got any good reason to believe it. So that means... doomed to controversy? That i have had choosen the dark side of the ego or ignorance? Of course, because the counciousness cant be known from within believes boundaries.
You know what Joesus, is imposible to try to disprove such statements. They just cant be disproven and any attempt of doing so can be called "doomed controversy-ego-ignorance" from people within the boundaries. Thats just circular reasoning. Your statement relies upon the asumption consciousness cant be experimented from inside time and space and needs to be on a state of freedom from boundaries (wich is just an opinion) then so if someone try to disprove such thing (wich is imposible) your theory becomes stronger because such person is obviously too blind inside the myst of believes.
Do you have an idea on what a...delicate position would be a person able to believe all the circular reasoning philosophies around? I believe some lies can be productive... for a while.
How do you make a distinction between "being free from believes" and "being able to believe whatever cames".
Isnt such "being free from believes" a believe itself?


That was me sorry. I thought i was logged in. Done some minor corrections aswell, still not perfect.
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post Feb 26, 2011, 09:52 AM
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QUOTE(Guest @ Feb 26, 2011, 04:15 AM) *

I cant believe it, or better expressed, i havent got any good reason to believe it. So that means... doomed to controversy?

Reasoning becomes the controversy. All reason becomes subject to what you accept as real, what you experience as real, and how far you are willing to go regarding the boundaries of your present experience and beliefs. Step outside of them or remain within them as they are moved about and rearranged.
QUOTE(Guest @ Feb 26, 2011, 04:15 AM) *

That i have had choosen the dark side of the ego or ignorance?
Of course, because the counciousness cant be known from within believes boundaries.
People make choices every day within the boundaries of what they have been told is true. The ego in and of itself is not so dark. Ultimately in a fully conscious being the ego is the servant to desire and experience. If the ego becomes the binding influence to our thoughts, actions and beliefs, then it is known as the driver of the vehicle of action and awareness. It becomes the unconscious influence in our lives. This is not so hard to believe, since history has shown us how belief can influence someone where greater knowledge and experience is lacking.
Killing in the name of God, Using leaches and bleeding an individual to heal the sick, burning witches at the stake and believing the world is flat.... All of the above and a multitude of other thoughts and ideas that become the influence/ego in ignorance.
QUOTE(Guest @ Feb 26, 2011, 04:15 AM) *

You know what Joesus, is imposible to try to disprove such statements. They just cant be prove and any attempt of doing so can be called "doomed controversy-ego-ignorance" from people within the boundaries. Thats just circular reasoning.
The idea is to point out that reasoning is often circular or within a fence that is bound by the current authority. People often believe and accept what they are told and very rarely find their own experience unless it is in regard to sex (personal relationships), money and personal idealisms that are bound to personality and instant gratification.

So, if it is impossible to disprove a statement does it mean it is true? OR if you can't disprove it or prove it, does the idea become unworthy and a lie? I find that the intellect avoids ideas that can't be proven or disproven and will tend to remain where it is safe, confined within the ego and its current fenced boundaries of belief.

QUOTE(Guest @ Feb 26, 2011, 04:15 AM) *
Your statement relies upon the asumption consciousness cant be experimented from inside time and space free from boundaries (wich is just an opinion) then so if someone try to disprove such thing (wich is imposible) your theory becomes stronger because such person is obviously too blind inside the myst of believes.
I assume you mean mist of beliefs...
Anyway my statement doesn't rely on the assumption that consciousness cannot be experimented with, and within relative boundaries. I simply stated Consciousness does not bind itself to the boundaries of human belief, any more than the world ends where the horizon stops your vision from seeing past the curve of the earth to what is beyond. What can't be proved is that Consciousness has an end or a limit when it comes to Universal Consciousness or the consciousness that supports inspiration, love, creativity and the energy that supports the creation of this or any other universe.
All boundaries of the ego are self made. This can be easily demonstrated by sampling the extent of each individuals experiences and limits of imagination to who they believe they are and what the universe is made of.
One person will say one thing and another will say something else. Even in a room where you place people together to witness an event, everyone is unique and will have their own experience. This is the ego of individuality, not the ego of universality.

The universal mind sees itself as all and everything, and no thing at all.

That, would be more akin to the experience of Consciousness itself. It can easily be approached within the relative confines of the human experience, and the human experience can be taken beyond the relative confines of beliefs that are what bind the human mind to the relative.

QUOTE(Guest @ Feb 26, 2011, 04:15 AM) *

Do you have an idea on what a...delicate position would be a person able to believe all the circular reasoning philosophies around? I believe some lies can be productive... for a while.

Lies can be productive in helping you train the senses to refine the intellect and the awareness to become better acquainted with basic functions of thought and perceptions of reality. But the method of following illusions is the long way around the barn.
QUOTE(Guest @ Feb 26, 2011, 04:15 AM) *

How do you make a distinction between "being free from believes" and "being able to believe whatever cames".
Isnt such "being free from believes" a believe itself?
It is a belief until it becomes a living reality. Most everything we are drawn toward starts or begins as a belief. Before the wheel was invented someone had a belief that there was an easier way to move objects across the ground (or something to that effect) and so they were drawn to the idea that something already exists within the realm of potential and pulled it out into reality. One could say the future or the object (Wheel) already existed in time and space and was waiting for the right moment when the intellect of the human could tune itself to the existing potential to manifest it within the relative.
This is how everything is brought into existence. There is a saying: "Nothing new is ever created, it is just remembered".
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post Mar 01, 2011, 06:36 PM
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I will explain myself better with a few videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKDsnFN7x6k

The ants are the awakening but innocent people in search for answers. The Dragonflies and birds are social singularities, memes, religions, philosophies, etc...They feed on people because they need us to keep existing. Those are very dificult to avoid indeed and all of us belong to a few of them, but being just a little bit cautious you can detect circular reasoning soon enough...There is no need to join too many of such clubs. What they call freedom is most probably slavery.
Why any of those so called "best way", "quicker way" or even and most despicable "the only way" are going to admit they are not better than any other? Why should one trust one above the other when all of them give you such reasons..."There is no reason, just believe and you will know" or "trying to think too much (reasoning) is bad for you, let the wiser do it for you" at best or "just directly lie to you" at worts case scenario.
I have had enough of faith and im sorry if i sound a bit aggressive Joesus. I have great respect for you but, Have you got an idea how nasty those dragonflies and birds can be?

The point is at the first part between 0 to 03:16 minutes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFRjfpY2lrs...embedded#at=200

Joesus i can see the intelligence on your words but the only truth i learned is:
Myst of believes= Wrong spelling.
Mist of beliefs= Wright spelling.
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Joesus
post Mar 02, 2011, 08:50 AM
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QUOTE(Jakare @ Mar 02, 2011, 02:36 AM) *

Myst of believes= Wrong spelling.
Mist of beliefs= Wright spelling.

That would be Right spelling. wink.gif

A person learns only at the level in which the intellect functions.

Everything has a purpose.
Nothing is useless.
All beliefs are rooted in the same cause.

Life as you see it comes from what you are able or want to see, not necessarily from what it is or what you are ultimately capable of being or seeing.
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Jakare
post Mar 02, 2011, 10:20 AM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ Mar 02, 2011, 05:50 PM) *

QUOTE(Jakare @ Mar 02, 2011, 02:36 AM) *

Myst of believes= Wrong spelling.
Mist of beliefs= Wright spelling.

That would be Right spelling. wink.gif

A person learns only at the level in which the intellect functions.



Well for the moment this basic conciousness is learning to spell thanks to you. See everything has a purpose! You were "right" on that. Thanks ;-)
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Joesus
post Mar 02, 2011, 11:35 AM
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Well, that's a start. happy.gif
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