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> Adderall Pro's and Con's, Boosting or potentiating adderalls effects
MindResearch2004
post Aug 16, 2004, 09:41 PM
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Hello, i would like to post some information about adderall and the good and bad about it, although IMO, the good outweigh the bad.
I was diagnosed with add approx . 5 months ago. I believe i always suffered with it, along with social phobia and refractory depression. Over the past few years, iv been researching numerous mental health related issues such as Depression, anxiety, drug addiction and the brain, the Psychopharmacology of drugs and the brain, Neurtransmitters and the pathways of each, and natural, alternative methods to better cognitive health.

I do know that there are 6 Types of add. I suffer from the one which effects me with lack of motivation, lack of joy with daily activities, depression, lack of creativity and social interaction. Iv tried numerous drugs, SSRIs, TCI's, Natural remodies such as 5-htp and Same, which id do take now at a low dose with my meds. Im currently taking lexapo 10mg, Adderall 30mg 2x daily, Suboxone 16mg for opiate cravings, ( yes i tend to and did abuse opiates only for a year). I was clean from every drug except for zoloft 100mg for 1 yr, and never felt right. I would get little bursts here and there, but nothing which really made me feel right, meaning, i lacked going out, socializing, just went about my daily life and had no pleasure in it, but once i ingested an opiate, i felt that scence of pleasure, but due to legality, tolerance addiction , i got up to using several oxy 40mg daily. I started with 2 vicodin a day. Go figure. So i had enough of that, went to a rehab , got clean and never found the proper meds or a doctor willing to work with me. So i read read and read and it seemed that Dopamine had alot to do with my problems. I had the seratonin kick going with 100mg of zoloft but that was it, with some caffiene.
so, to be brief, 6 months ago, i found a docto who was pretty well rounded and knew alot about addiction and medication, moresoe an internal medicine doc with some schooliing on addiction. He is certified to perscribe suboxone, which not any doctor can do without finishing a course of certification. Nothing big, but still, he has 30 opiate addicted patients, including me. So he started meon Suboxone, 24mg, which really helped with opaite withdrawls, and some cravings, but still, i didnt feel much of anything, no high for one, which would be a no no, so my next visit, he administered an ADD testing plan and i must have failed because he then persribed me adderall 10mg 2x daily with a low dose of Klonopin. Lexapro is also added in there. I noticed positive results immediately. I became more focused, had less drug cravings, i was motivated to do things, such as sit and research at my computer for 7 hrs , before this, maybe 30min tops. Some nights i would stay up reading. Ok, well from reading about adderall, an amphetamine with contains 4 different salts. The activation of brain dopamine , mainly from the nucleus accumbens, which i believe adderall produces, is what i needed. Some say well im just swithing one drug to another but look, i do believe just because im an opiate addict, doesnt mean i will take 10 adderalls or 10 klonopins. I take them as persribed, except now for adderall which i have added another dose, which i will explain shortly. NONE of these meds get me high, they all seem to work synergisticaly with one another, and i get a better state of well being, concentracton, im more social, happier, content with what im doing in life, and i have that creativity that i always called the "zest for life". For the longest time, i thought only seratonin played the role of such. But now other neurochemicals come into play and there we have it. Ok Seratonin, Dopamine, Norepinephrine, GABA Opioid receptors, and glutamate, i have begun researching and learing what medications do to each, and even herbal and natural methods. Now i can confuse myself because there is a slue of information out there.

My main problem im having with adderall is that it seems to wear off after 4-5 hrs. I have to dose every 5 hours to sustain the desired effect. I did wait and timed a dose and 7 hrs after taking a dose, i became slightly depressed, lacked motivation, i felt i was loosing that brain stimulation with clarity and focus i needed. So now, dosing per say 10am, 3pm, 30mg a dose, by 9pm, the effects are fading, and this is the time between 8pm and 2am is when i do most of my online research, reading etc, or going out with friends to social gatherings.
So i came up with some alternatives. Before i go on, i did take 30mg 3 x daily and it worked out perfect. But then i would be short on my perscription. so i cannot add another dose per day. One alternative is to search for a supplement or substance that will potentiate adderall, make it last longer at least 3 hrs. Now some stimulants in mind are Caffeine, ephedra, and some nootropic smart drugs, the latter which im now researching. But both caffeine and ephedra have bad points. Caffeine just doesnt do it for me. After taking 60mg of adderall daily , caffeine does not have the potency, it may help a bit but not much at all. Next would be ephedrine, which is currently being banned. I do have alot of pure ephedrine pills , which i used to take yrs ago, not the actually pills, but i used to take 2 white cross ephedrine pills daily. I cant remember much about it, but i know that it did cause a quite a bit of anxiety and shakes, although i was not taking any benzodiazapines and i was drinking alot of alcohol. And i did not know about ADD and similar mental problems, but i know it gave me that kick i needed. Ephedrine, is a pretty powerful stimulant, but if you compare it to adderall, id say that ephedrine lacks the mental focus and clarity that adderall causes. It also would wear off fast and i would become very irriable, lethargic and would have to take another one fast. Then i remember stopping it altogether about 4 yrs ago, and for about 1 week, i laid around sleeping for hrs, had no energy or motivation to do anything. So, if i took say 1/2 of a 25mg ephedrine pill in the morning, timed it correctly, so when i start taking my adderall, the ephedrine would be at least half elimanted. I would not want to piggy back both of them, unless i lowered both doses of each. For instance, take 15mg of adderal, with 10mg of ephedrine 3 x daily , or even just one dose of ephedrine, due to the fact i believe its half life is alot longer. THis i have to research.
There are some amphetamine potentiators, from what i read, like antacids, for one, stop the break down of amphetamines from stomach acids.

Another option is dropping the dose back to 20mg , 3x daily and taking a less potent stimulant with 20mg of adderall. Possibly a noorotropic smart drug which iv been reading about, and if anyone knows of such, please post.

I have a few questions? They may be a bit far fetched but id appreciate it if someone helped me find answeres. Is there any "natural supplements" which release dopamine from the Nucleus accumbens? Or natural supplement combonatioins which act as a psychostimulant, even mild one. ?? What can be taken with adderall to potentiate its effects? It is better to take one or 2 large doses, or 3 smaller doses and add anothe stimulant. LIke for example, Option 1 would be lowering the dose to 20mg 3x daily and take another stimulant with it? Or just take say 40mg of adderall at noon, wait it out 8 hrs , and take the remainder of 20mg at night. Or vise versa, due to the fact i need the psychostimulation at night like after 8pm. There are numerous botanicals, herbs, adaptogens , etc on the market, and some studies show they have phamologic properties. Has anyone had luck with such for ADD type symptoms.
I read briefly the 6 different forms of add. I cant recall which one, but one of them almost totally described me. This form of add resulted in one being depressed for no reason, lethargic , no motivation or getting any joy out of doing daily activities, even activities that are so called fun? Also, this person, suffered from excessive sleep which in turn can feel just as bad as 2 hrs of sleep. OVer sleeping like 10 hrs or more, causes me to feel like crapola the whole day. But with adderall, i seem to require less sleep, 6 hrs on average, and im alert from moring to night. I rarely take a nap, as when before i would always be laying down watching tv being antisocial hermit. And a funny thing is I DO work out 6 times a week, and felt a little better after such, maily bodybuilding and kickboxing, but still not where i wanted to be , or the " natural high" you get from a workout may only last me 1 or 2 hrs.

Last, One may say im taking too may meds and supplements. Well, i just may be, i can list what im taking and you decide. But from how i felt one year ago, being clean taking only zoloft and a multiviamin for at least 8 months, to how i feel now, Im not using illicite drugs, but i am taking a partial opiate (suboxone), a benzodiazapine (klonopin) but at a low dose of .25mg 2x daily just enough to quell anxiety from the stimulants. Third would be the adderall, which is speed , and some addicts, such as meth addicts would probably eat 5 adderall 30mgs at a pop. But i dont like feeling speedy, but a calm energy type , with good mental clarity and thoughtfulness and motivation. Not just all wired up top of my head tingling, racing feeling. I really hate that state of mind. Lexapro, at 10mg, does not cause me any side effects, but ssris, iv bee on paxil, zoloft, effexor, desipramine, welbutrin, and none of those meds did much but keep me from going crazy or severly depressed. Effexor was the worst medicaton i took, on the second day, i felt like i took 10 ephedrines, plus a hit of acid. I dont wanna even explain the adverse effect. Desipramine, tooted as an alterantive for amphetamines, make the top of my head feel like there are 1000 tiny bugs crawrling around, and did not do much for mood, psychostimulant, or even energy, but it made my heart pound. Welbutrin , another one, i took once but i stopped because i became too anxous, although i was in the phase of quitting alcohol.

Well i think i wrote enought. Follow up posts or opinions i would apprietiate. Thank you for taking the time to read this
MR
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Unknown
post Aug 16, 2004, 09:51 PM
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QUOTE (MindResearch2004 @ Aug 16, 09:41 PM)
My main problem im having with adderall is that it seems to wear off after 4-5 hrs. I have to dose every 5 hours to sustain the desired effect.


I enjoyed your post. It was very informative. I'd read some good things about adderall but would have something of a difficult time getting it (though you can buy it online without prescription for about $100 for 30-60 day supply). It's sort of funny that you legally buy methamphetamines now, and adderall is one of the best out there (well, better than ritalin at least).

About you problems with adderall, how about trying the new adderall xr, which is sustained release, with one dose supposedly being good enough for a whole day?

About ephedrine and it's banning, have you tried pseudoephedrine, which is very similar to ephedrine but is perfectly legal and is a sympathomimetic and is used for common colds (it's found in Sudafed but I'd recommend the generics, either 120 mg sustained release or a few 30 mg immediate release tablets)?


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Unknown
post Aug 17, 2004, 01:02 PM
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Thank you for the replay, well all that ifo is based upon what iv been researching, but im no doctor. Anyway, i have ephedrine pills , and even though there not adderall, the do have similar effects, because ephedrine isused to make methamphetamine.
Adderall XR is not covered by my insurance plan. Go figure. So im thinking of just doing two options. One is taking a small dose of ephedrine with a lower dose or even 30mg of adderall to boost it up. If i get too hyped up or it causes a reactoin, ill have to go another route. But Lowering the dose is the safe way if you are going to go that route. I mean i could drink caffiene all day long, but i dont feel like doing that, plus caffeine is nowhere near the effects of ephedrine.
I know 30mg is the highest dose of adderall. But it lasts 5 hrs tops, more like 4 hrs. So that leaves with only 8-10 hrs of benifit. But if say i lower my dose to 20mg , take it 3x daily, and add another stimulant , it may work.
I also have been taking L-tyrose which is an amino acid precursor to dopamine. There are other dopaminergic agents, such as Munuca Prurriens (15%l-dopa), which is a supplement for weight loss. There are also herbs that stimulante dopamine and help add, but i have to research those. Heck, something right now can be sitting on the shelf of gnc, that would work great with medications, but alot of natural or herbal remodies havent been studied.

From what i gather, the release of dopamine from the nucleus accumens is what you want. But when i search online, somtimes things get to compicated and confusing.

Ill post more again later
nm
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Unknown
post Aug 27, 2004, 11:50 AM
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How about you all try taking NONE of the medications and maybe your life would balance out? With all these drugs being taken I don't see how you can tell the difference!
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Unknown
post Aug 28, 2004, 07:22 PM
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How about posting something intelligent or positive, instead of saying OH just stop taking medication. I dont appreciate a response to just stop taking medication. Im not bashing you, but im looking for some information that may benifit my experience. Yes, taking medications can be addictive, but if you take them as perscribed, i dont see a problem. esp for one who does suffer from depression, social anxiety, add, and on top of that opiate addiction.
I guess everyone is entitled to there opinion. THis board is more for people who may know about neuropharm, or pharmocology of drugs and neruotransmitters. Im not doctor, or expert, but I do apprecitate a reply from persons who have experienced a problem like i have.
Ok, well if i just stopped taking my medication. Id give it 24 hrs, and i would be back taking oxycontin or what not. On top of that, id experience withdrawls from these meds.
I do plan on eliminating my meds and replacing them with more natural means, but being that i have not been clean for very long, i dont want to relapse. I do believe these drugs can be abused, but I do not or am not addicted to benzodiazapines or stimulants.

Everyone has different addictions. Mine just had to be opiates. And my doctor, who is specialized in this field, did persribe these meds, so i dont plan on just stopping my medications. Well if anyone has positive information, besides saying just quit or im an addict, please post. thank you
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Robert the Bruce
post Aug 28, 2004, 09:36 PM
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Dear U

I doubt you have real knowledge of OOBE's, Astral Travel and Possessions which along with other things are often confused. Dan is trying to get you to see that your mind is part of what creates the music and he is likely correct. Wilder Penfield attached electrodes to parts of the brain and got tunes heard just once decades earlier.

The various addictions you have (including the ones prescribed) are all quite capable of enhancing the hallucination process - have you read the Nurse's Handbook or done research to see that. On the other hand if you explored the realm with serious intent as one person I have helped over the last four years has done - you might indeed get better - if you really wanted to.
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Dan
post Aug 29, 2004, 01:54 AM
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RTB
I appreciate the reference to me, but 'tis not I

however, I agree that this person is perhaps better served by recognizing their addictions as chosen rather than condemning those who would point this out
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Robert the Bruce
post Aug 29, 2004, 04:48 AM
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Yes, I see it is mostly Rick but you also said this.

so you're saying that the existence of this 'realm' of Tchaikovsky music has been independently verified, right?

And it is entirely possible to get independent verification of astral travel - indeed that is one of the things that makes it so special. There also is a technique called mind-fogging that some sorcerers can employ - I have lots of stories about that.

The most interesting thing from our discussions here and at another site with the shaman (freak) called Red Dragon was that he has been duped by CONSTRUCTS (Rabbinical = Kabbalism = 'twisted'). He admitted he saw many false CONSTRUCTS but thought these ones were real unlike the Masonic ones. The sad thing is - the Rabbinical constructs and Masons are of the same source.

The truly sad thing I see here - is that people want to dump their ego about OOBE's and yet they do not study it and simply go with the ego response which the people who have made the CONSTRUCTS seek to create.

I saw a person remotely (from Las Vegas to Toledo over more than a year) hypnotize a person so that a trigger word (Moonbeam) caused the victim (His lady who he had not seen in two or more years) to utter a specific thought. She did not even recall this thought the moment after she said it while we were sitting eating dinner. He explained it to her at that point.
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Unknown
post Sep 28, 2004, 09:15 AM
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"My main problem im having with adderall is that it seems to wear off after 4-5 hrs. I have to dose every 5 hours to sustain the desired effect."


If XR isn't a viable option, investigate combining Prozac with adderall, it should help prolong its effect. Stimulant + an SSRI. I have ADHD with a huge emphasis on the "H". I find that ~3-4 hours is the perfect amount of time to get work done, but I rarely take my amphetamine salt if I'm not in class or at the library. My psychiatrist suggested that if I wanted a more sustained efficacy, I should try lowering the adderall dose slightly (I take 30mg/day tablets) and take prozac. Good Luck.

Brian C. Skelly
Cornell University
Class of 2005
Biological Sciences - Nerobiology and Behavior
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Unknown
post Sep 28, 2004, 11:39 AM
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adderall is good
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Tone
post Sep 28, 2004, 05:22 PM
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Im in the same boat as you but adderall is a very very terrible drug for me that makes things much worse and causes dysphoria and anxiety. opioids are the only thing that helps me at all and i tried everything
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Tone
post Sep 28, 2004, 05:27 PM
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Is that robert bruce? i got a question, if running water is such a good technique, how come anyone is vaunerable? dont people take showers daily ?? i most admit a shower does make you feel purified
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Robert the Bruce
post Sep 28, 2004, 06:51 PM
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???????????????


Too many drugs?
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Dan
post Sep 28, 2004, 09:51 PM
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crank'll do stuff like that
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Tone
post Sep 28, 2004, 10:01 PM
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Robert Bruce the astral travel guy claims stepping over running water will save you from psychic attack. thats what i was refering to, anyway off topic for this thread
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Robert the Bruce
post Sep 28, 2004, 10:10 PM
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I do get confused with him - and I am on his site. Throwing salt over your shoulder or having it at your doors and windows is better I hear. Best thing is to have good 'protection' like a mirror and welcoming all energy that is received with an auto pilot that returns the negative (sometimes it takes a little extra to return it to the sorcerers who are of bad INTENT).

Water has a damping effect on energy and is symbolically associated with sex - that is often what psychic attacks involve in some manner. Have you read of Masaro Emotu's experiments with water forming crystals? Salt has the crystals and energy wells to assist in capturing energy too. Don Robins wrote a great book called The Secret Language of Stone that I often quote from - he is a Ph. D. in solid state Physics with many patents to his credit - I prefer to use this kind of approach in my explanations rather than selling 'magical mystery [Miss-story] tours'.
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Dan
post Sep 29, 2004, 01:02 AM
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uh,......hmmm.....

anybody have some extra crank?,..er,...Adderall? I hear its crystalline lattice radiates massive amounts of libidnous energy when ingested under a rotating disco ball
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Unknown
post Oct 24, 2004, 01:46 PM
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LMAO! That, Dan, is hilarious...

Anywho...I take Adderall, I obtained my prescription via my former (childhood) diagnosis of "ADHD."

I truly do believe I may have a brain deficiency of Dopamine activity. It's too bad that Adderall forces the release of massive amounts of Noroepinephrine prior to it's indirect activation of Dopamine release in the Nucleus Accumbens.

So usually I get a rush from the adderall at about 30-1.5H after ingestion, which is can be fun, but I enjoy THC much more...this maybe a good thing, making it not too terribly desirable recreationally for me.

A major adverse reaction of mine to the amphetamine, is heavily increased hair thinning. I had some thinning of my hair in the temples 2 years ago (age 19) and now, at 21, I have signifigant thinning all over the top including the vertex. Horrible! I know amphetamine is an adrenic drug, does it also increase androgen production?
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bnice
post Oct 25, 2004, 03:01 PM
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I can say with relative certainty that it does indeed induce some thinning. There's not much published on this issue, but from what I can ascertain amphetamine not only increases plasma testosterone levels (precursor to DHT) but also reduces blood flow to the scalp.

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Unknown
post Oct 26, 2004, 09:40 PM
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Yeah, this indeed SUCKS. I should have stopped using it as soon as I noticed the increased thinning. Which was actually VERY soon after starting the Adderall. I had had some bit of thinning in the temples of my hair, but that is actually normal as a teenager becomes a young man. As soon as I started the Adderall, however, I had a period of intense itching in the vertex of my scalp, followed by an EXTREME loss of hair in the subsequent shampooing. Perhaps 300-500 hairs!

Now my hair is much thinner all over (in a MPB pattern, not totally diffuse) with a near-bald patch in the vertex. I am going to ask the doctor for Propecia script, and perhaps start using topical minoxidil and nizoral shampoo as well. I'm hoping I can counteract the horrible hairloss without stopping the adderall. I have doubts of course. I wonder if a switch to Ritalin along with the treatments would be in order.
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bnice
post Nov 01, 2004, 04:31 PM
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As I mentioned, the mechanisms behind the hair loss are not very well known, but I don't think switching to ritalin will aleviate your hair loss, besides adderall is a better drug for your ADHD. try the propecia, but make sure you give it AT LEAST 3 months because you won't see any slowing of hair loss until then. I have taken propecia for 3.5 months now in the hopes of countering the hair loss that I believe coincided with my regular regimen of adderall. I have not noticed a big difference (maybe a very slight decrease in the rate of hair loss). However, my hair loss is not as severe as yours, and the reason I feel my hair loss is due to adderall is based on timing and the fact that I have no MPB on either side of my family. Propecia is designed to counteract the effect of DHT, however if stimulants do increase androgen production above normal levels, I don't know how effective propecia will be. It's designed to block the formation of DHT at certain areas of the scalp, and works for the majority of men, but most men aren't increasing androgen levels with stimulants, so it'll be interesting so see the results of my little experiment. I'll let you know what happens. Good luck.

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AMP_EATING_NEUROLOGIST
post Nov 09, 2004, 09:46 PM
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researcher guy,

try this, it worked for me (and i used to adore my opium flowers!)

herbal stack:
adderall throughout the day
5-htp
l-tyrosine
l-dopa - sinemet - mucuna puriens (any of these)
kava kava in the evenings when you need to socialize
this made my amp have a lil more kick


or add:
piracetam & selegiline

quit klonopin: that sh*t wastes adderall effects and is generally just stupid.
email me at drans@mail.com for more info
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brianraine
post Nov 11, 2004, 01:15 PM
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ople who may know about neuropharm, or pharmocology of drugs and neruotransmitters. Im not doctor, or expert, but I do apprecitate a reply from persons who have experienced a problem like i have.
Ok, well if i just stopped taking my medication. Id give it 24 hrs, and i would be back taking oxycontin or what not. On top of that, id experience withdrawls from these meds.
I do plan on eliminating my meds and replacing them with more natural means, but being that i have not been clean for very long, i dont want to relapse. I do believe these drugs can be abused, but I do not or am not addicted to benzodiazapines or stimulants.
amen,,'

i beleive any therapist who uses the word addiction when they prescribe is off base, people need certain meds daily, and their benefits, sometimes may be a calm feeling or may be an uplifting or plain a feeling of normalicy able to be in public....my dr is one of the ones who tries to say im "addicted to benzos" peope are addicted to heroin, its a street term and in my opinion shouldnt be used in the medical profession..are diabetics"addicted" to their meds, is everyone on prozak addicted.well they are to the same standards that some drs. put out the term.....my dr will rx me 10000's of antidepressants way to powerful anti-psychotics before she will give me more benzos...because their addicting....
phisically. yes, but theraputically they ie any phisically addicting neccecary med that is needed on a daily basis should not be considred to be addiccted,,,,a beter term would be dose dependent, sh*t prozac and other ad's are way more addicting or dose dependant..addictiion is a word therapists use to make their patient feel there doing something wrong its not liberating..i diodnt explain this like i had intended, cuzz im in a rush.....ok
luv this board all the info i was looking for


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Unknown
post Nov 13, 2004, 10:56 AM
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thanks for the info, AMP_EATING_NEUROLOGIST!
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Unknown
post Nov 13, 2004, 10:47 PM
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For anyone wanting info on Adderall or other mood-altering drugs ... or for those looking to get off them and use a natural approach to therapy..this is a good site http://www.adhdhelp.org/stimulants.htme

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Unknown
post Nov 13, 2004, 10:48 PM
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Make that addy.. http://www.adhdhelp.org/
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wrkoutgrl
post Nov 17, 2004, 04:18 PM
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Hey guys...

I'm taking Add. and also noticed some hair thinning. Get your dermatologist to prescribe you Sprinolactone...this medication can be used for various things. In this situation, it's used as a DHT blocker. I love it...it works GREAT! I hope I could help...
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post Feb 12, 2006, 10:14 PM
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i take this crap and all it makes me do is want to stare at a wall. and i can never seem to fall asleep i get like 2 hours of sleep a night. it also makes my mouth all dry and i never have an appitite. i take it during the week before i go to school and right when i take it i feel normal and then after about 2 hours i just want to stand around and not do anything. then about 4 or 5 hours after taking it feels like my body is all tingly and if i get up after sitting down for even five mintutes i black out. so i thought if i dont take it then i will be back to normal but if i dont then i feel like more crap than i did. i just wanna know what i can do to get back to normal or if there could be anything im doin wrong to make me feel like that. i have been tryin to figure out whats wrong for a real long time.
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maximus242
post Feb 13, 2006, 12:15 PM
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QUOTE(Guest @ Feb 12, 11:14 PM) *

i take this crap and all it makes me do is want to stare at a wall. and i can never seem to fall asleep i get like 2 hours of sleep a night. it also makes my mouth all dry and i never have an appitite. i take it during the week before i go to school and right when i take it i feel normal and then after about 2 hours i just want to stand around and not do anything. then about 4 or 5 hours after taking it feels like my body is all tingly and if i get up after sitting down for even five mintutes i black out. so i thought if i dont take it then i will be back to normal but if i dont then i feel like more crap than i did. i just wanna know what i can do to get back to normal or if there could be anything im doin wrong to make me feel like that. i have been tryin to figure out whats wrong for a real long time.


Maybe you need to try something other than drugs..
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Guest_Dan_*
post Feb 15, 2006, 01:22 AM
Post #30


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try coffee. or maybe you should go to vo-tech
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