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> What is Courage?
coberst
post Mar 28, 2010, 08:16 AM
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What is Courage?

Courage has two components; the ontological (body in action) and the conceptual (mind in action).

Paul Tillich, “Apostle to the intellectuals”, attempts to provide a new theological vocabulary by which modern wo/man might deal with the human situation. Tillich informs us that “Few concepts are as useful for the analysis of the human situation” as the concept of courage.

In his acclaimed book The Courage to Be Tillich sees courage as an “ethical reality”, i.e. courage is foremost a conceptual reality, which is rooted in the whole gestalt of human existence and “ultimately in the structure of being itself. It must be considered ontologically [body-mind in action] in order to be understood ethically”.

When one speaks of mind almost everyone thinks of a stand alone entity functioning in a logical manner in which the body is merely a house for its place of habitation until death, at which time it, sometimes called the soul, floats away to a spiritual kingdom. I wish to correct that erroneous idea.

I have coined the word body-mind, which I first discovered by reading Mark Johnson’s book The Meaning of the Body, because I wish the reader to think not of the mind as a separate entity residing in the body but because I want the reader to think of a body-mind gestalt. That is to say that the mind is an embodied mind, which cannot stand alone just as the heart cannot stand alone with the body bracketed.

Quickie from Wiki: “The psychologist, Carl Jung, who studied archetypes, proposed an alternative definition of symbol, distinguishing it from the term "sign". In Jung's view, a sign stands for something known, as a word stands for its referent. He contrasted this with symbol, which he used to stand for something that is unknown and that cannot be made clear or precise.”

In accordance with Carl Jung I would say that the term “body-mind” is a symbol.

Humans, when they became conscious of their mortality, became overly anxious upon discovering their forthcoming death and they conceptualized the soul, which over millions of years morphed into monotheism and religion. Religion became the promise of life everlasting and thus assuaged the anxiety of death.

This anxiety over mortality caused a self-critical humanity to develop the mind/body dichotomy. This dichotomy leads to the idea that there is an essential difference between body and mind. But SGCS (Second Generation Cognitive Science) informs us that we have a body-mind, that is to say that we are a gestalt, not two parts working separately but an integrated functioning whole. The body and mind works as a single unit. The body in action and the mind in action make the human being in action with a constant interrelationship between these two aspects of the gestalt.

Tillich informs us that the human act of courage is fundamentally a body-mind action driven by an ethical concept. “The courage to be is the ethical act in which man affirms his own being in spite of those elements of his existence which conflict with his essential self-affirmation.”

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maximus242
post Mar 28, 2010, 11:51 AM
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I think courage is acting in spite of overwhelming fear.
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Joesus
post Mar 28, 2010, 04:32 PM
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Courage is being scared to death - but saddling up anyway.
- John Wayne
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coberst
post Mar 29, 2010, 02:00 AM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ Mar 28, 2010, 04:32 PM) *

Courage is being scared to death - but saddling up anyway.
- John Wayne


The best way to learn is to study the works of the best thinkers. I wonder of John Wayne qualifies.
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Joesus
post Mar 29, 2010, 09:36 AM
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SIGNS OF A TRUE TEACHER
A. SURRENDER TO A TRUE TEACHER NATURALLY LEADS TO SERVICE. Service to humanity, not to the desires of the waking state ego, or self service to the exclusion of humanity and the connection one has to being part of humanity.
B. IS THE ADVICE FROM THE TEACHER GIVEN TO HELP HEAL ALL OF HUMANITY AND ALL OF THE EARTH? Or is it for some lesser cause?
C. WHERE DOES THE TEACHER'S FOCUS LEAD? Is the Teacher's advice to look inside for confirmation? All true teachings ultimately point the finger of understanding back at one's own heart. All true growth comes from the inside out. The best Teacher can only give you the blueprints. you still have to build the house by yourself.
D. DOES THE TEACHER'S TEACHING LEAD TO ENLIGHTENMENT? Does Surrender mean faster growth is occurring? Is one becoming less stuck every day? Are the previous areas of falseness and compromise being replaced by honesty, truth and integrity? Are the experiences of the subtle increasing in depth and power? Is life's focus shifting from absorption in the past and future to life Here and Now?

Is the True teacher in all of us, or only someplace else? Can it come through anyone or only some one?
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ofmelancholy788
post Apr 10, 2010, 01:30 PM
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QUOTE(maximus242 @ Mar 28, 2010, 11:51 AM) *

I think courage is acting in spite of overwhelming fear.

maybe it is not feeling fear
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coberst
post Apr 11, 2010, 06:57 AM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ Mar 29, 2010, 09:36 AM) *



Is the True teacher in all of us, or only someplace else? Can it come through anyone or only some one?



The teacher that Americans know is the person carrying a pitcher of knowledge walking about the class room pouring knowledge into the cups of the students. It is a teaching by telling wherein the learner concentrates on rote learning.

I do not think that we have enough experience with self-actualizing self-learning to generalize. My personal experience is that self-actualizing self-learning is far superior to teaching by telling.



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Joesus
post Apr 14, 2010, 08:15 AM
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QUOTE(coberst @ Apr 11, 2010, 02:57 PM) *

QUOTE(Joesus @ Mar 29, 2010, 09:36 AM) *



Is the True teacher in all of us, or only someplace else? Can it come through anyone or only some one?



The teacher that Americans know is the person carrying a pitcher of knowledge walking about the class room pouring knowledge into the cups of the students. It is a teaching by telling wherein the learner concentrates on rote learning.

I do not think that we have enough experience with self-actualizing self-learning to generalize. My personal experience is that self-actualizing self-learning is far superior to teaching by telling.

The question wasn't about generalization. It was about the Teacher and what you call teacher.
You asked me about John Wayne and whether he could be considered as an option to be studied as one of the best thinkers. My question is in regard to isolating knowledge and experience to a defined group of thinkers and who defines the knowledge and the thinker as best. Who says when someone who hasn't been defined as one of the best is not useful or does not have something worth listening to, or something to be studied or admired?

What knowledge is useful and what isn't. When does thinking become useless without the experience?
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Jakare
post Apr 15, 2010, 02:34 PM
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The true teacher doesnt need to be a person, can be any experience, object or animal you find on your way. But if you want to be aware of them all you firstly need to become an apprentice and set your mind-body on the right mood to learn and to self-actualize when its needed.
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Joesus
post Apr 17, 2010, 09:29 AM
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QUOTE(Jakare @ Apr 15, 2010, 10:34 PM) *

The true teacher doesnt need to be a person, can be any experience, object or animal you find on your way. But if you want to be aware of them all you firstly need to become an apprentice and set your mind-body on the right mood to learn and to self-actualize when its needed.


I see. You create a mood and instantly you imagine a rock or bug has something to tell you and gives you feedback to tell you whether you imagine correctly or not?
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Jakare
post Apr 17, 2010, 09:37 AM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ Apr 17, 2010, 07:29 PM) *

QUOTE(Jakare @ Apr 15, 2010, 10:34 PM) *

The true teacher doesnt need to be a person, can be any experience, object or animal you find on your way. But if you want to be aware of them all you firstly need to become an apprentice and set your mind-body on the right mood to learn and to self-actualize when its needed.


I see. You create a mood and instantly you imagine a rock or bug has something to tell you and gives you feedback to tell you whether you imagine correctly or not?


Everything implies something so, its not like the rock or the bug tells you anything but you being able to understand the implications. Of course would be appreciated if they can save you some precious time and talk to you directly. Anyway such kind of deductions cant be taken as proves but just as investigations guides.

I wish it would be so easy to create a mood instantly, doesnt some nootropics help you to do that?
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Joesus
post Apr 17, 2010, 11:24 AM
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QUOTE(Jakare @ Apr 17, 2010, 05:37 PM) *

Everything implies something

How is it possible for an object to convey something to you, without you making an assumption regarding whatever that something is thru your own determination? Where is the connecting link between the object and consciousness in the object and in you?
QUOTE(Jakare @ Apr 17, 2010, 05:37 PM) *
its not like the rock or the bug tells you anything but you being able to understand the implications.

You mean you begin to understand that you have your own ideas about things as you take into consideration that they exist and you place ideas upon them and yourself in relationship to them?
QUOTE(Jakare @ Apr 17, 2010, 05:37 PM) *
Of course would be appreciated if they can save you some precious time and talk to you directly. Anyway such kind of deductions cant be taken as proves but just as investigations guides.

If there is no communication there can be no guidance, only self created idealizations, beliefs, opinions, assumptions and projections. Where is the guidance in self determination? I believe you are speaking of trial and error within the boundaries of self prescribed beliefs and the ability to perceive reality at varying levels of awareness. You show a child a bug and he/she might eat it.
You show an average adult the bug and he/she has some idea of what it is after several experiences with bugs and may ignore it or squash it.
Different people see and experience different things and without feedback your own determination without the feedback of others leaves you isolated within the boundaries of your own limits of imagination.
Even if you do get feedback, if all of those with whom you converse with have limited imaginations and their perceptions of reality are at the level where they believe things like the earth is flat, where is the guidance or knowledge going going to take you if your experience is no better than theirs?
QUOTE(Jakare @ Apr 17, 2010, 05:37 PM) *

I wish it would be so easy to create a mood instantly, doesnt some nootropics help you to do that?

This might affirm the difficulty in self guiding principles or the limitations of belief when if you begin to assume something outside of your own abilities. Who or what is the authority that might lead you to more than you yourself can know or accomplish. And what are they, if they can not give you feedback?

Where you are taking this, is into an idea that if you stumble around in the world blind, eventually after crashing into things and making blind assumptions, you might gain sight and understanding of what you can't see and didn't know anything about until you crashed into them and made some sort of assumption regarding the experience.
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Jakare
post Apr 17, 2010, 07:34 PM
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(How is it possible for an object to convey something to you, without you making an assumption regarding whatever that something is thru your own determination?)
-Your right, its not posible without making an assumption, so like reality these kind of awarenes of implications rely on our limited perception.

(Where is the connecting link between the object and consciousness in the object and in you?)
-This connection its virtual and subjective. The quality of it depends of the quality of your subjective perception. Thats why i talked about becoming an apprentice, an open mind it needed badly.

(You mean you begin to understand that you have your own ideas about things as you take into consideration that they exist and you place ideas upon them and yourself in relationship to them?)
-Lol you put it in words better than me whether im right or wrong.

(If there is no communication there can be no guidance, only self created idealizations, beliefs, opinions, assumptions and projections. Where is the guidance in self determination? I believe you are speaking of trial and error within the boundaries of self prescribed beliefs and the ability to perceive reality at varying levels of awareness. You show a child a bug and he/she might eat it.)
-I can see your point. But seems like you dont believe self-determination can lead you to a closer connection with your own conscioussness and to a greather personal development. I know this is not strictly taking guidance but it leaves you in a certainly better position to be aware of any oportunity of guidance and general understanding.

(You show an average adult the bug and he/she has some idea of what it is after several experiences with bugs and may ignore it or squash it.
Different people see and experience different things and without feedback your own determination without the feedback of others leaves you isolated within the boundaries of your own limits of imagination.
Even if you do get feedback, if all of those with whom you converse with have limited imaginations and their perceptions of reality are at the level where they believe things like the earth is flat, where is the guidance or knowledge going going to take you if your experience is no better than theirs?)

-Honestly i have accepted others guidance quite easily in the past and overall was like a blind guiding another blind but the crashes gives you experience. In the stage of consciussness i am right know i prefer to rely on my self and be very carefull on what guidance i do accept. Anyway comparing perceptions doesnt hurt anyone balanced. You can take the feedback or not, its your responsability.
-Stages of isolation can be quite refreshing.

(This might affirm the difficulty in self guiding principles or the limitations of belief when if you begin to assume something outside of your own abilities. Who or what is the authority that might lead you to more than you yourself can know or accomplish. And what are they, if they can not give you feedback?)
-Right, but They can make the limit of your imagination wider and this gives you some extra room to play with your tight reality perception. Any help its welcome.

(Where you are taking this, is into an idea that if you stumble around in the world blind, eventually after crashing into things and making blind assumptions, you might gain sight and understanding of what you can't see and didn't know anything about until you crashed into them and made some sort of assumption regarding the experience.)
-Basicaly yes and i can tell you that for the moment its been for the better. Why do you think i ended in this forum? It was in the hope of gain sight yes. Because as you gain sight you blind assumptions are less blind, arent they? and apart of the nootropics it seems like i find some qualified perceptions to compare mine with. Guidance too? how knows. Oh, aswell im improving my English, at least i hope so.
Thanks a lot for your Feedback Joesus. Its appreciated.
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Joesus
post Apr 18, 2010, 09:38 AM
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QUOTE(Jakare @ Apr 18, 2010, 03:34 AM) *

(How is it possible for an object to convey something to you, without you making an assumption regarding whatever that something is thru your own determination?)
-Your right, its not posible without making an assumption, so like reality these kind of awarenes of implications rely on our limited perception.
And understanding.
QUOTE(Jakare @ Apr 18, 2010, 03:34 AM) *

(Where is the connecting link between the object and consciousness in the object and in you?)
-This connection its virtual and subjective. The quality of it depends of the quality of your subjective perception. Thats why i talked about becoming an apprentice, an open mind it needed badly.

(You mean you begin to understand that you have your own ideas about things as you take into consideration that they exist and you place ideas upon them and yourself in relationship to them?)
-Lol you put it in words better than me whether im right or wrong.
Becoming the student means emptying the cup of concepts and ideas so that if they apply they will come back into the cup refined or not at all. There is no right and wrong with the universe or you, but there can be distinctions between states of consciousness and recognition of yourself within reality and how reality is perceived in the changing states of consciousness.
QUOTE(Jakare @ Apr 18, 2010, 03:34 AM) *

(If there is no communication there can be no guidance, only self created idealizations, beliefs, opinions, assumptions and projections. Where is the guidance in self determination? I believe you are speaking of trial and error within the boundaries of self prescribed beliefs and the ability to perceive reality at varying levels of awareness. You show a child a bug and he/she might eat it.)
-I can see your point. But seems like you dont believe self-determination can lead you to a closer connection with your own conscioussness and to a greather personal development. I know this is not strictly taking guidance but it leaves you in a certainly better position to be aware of any oportunity of guidance and general understanding.

How would you know consciousness? How would you connect with it and how would you create personal development having never been where you think you want to go? IF your mind projects an idea and you take yourself toward the projection, and that projection is the goal, why aren't you already there if you know what it is you are reaching for?
QUOTE(Jakare @ Apr 18, 2010, 03:34 AM) *

(You show an average adult the bug and he/she has some idea of what it is after several experiences with bugs and may ignore it or squash it.
Different people see and experience different things and without feedback your own determination without the feedback of others leaves you isolated within the boundaries of your own limits of imagination.
Even if you do get feedback, if all of those with whom you converse with have limited imaginations and their perceptions of reality are at the level where they believe things like the earth is flat, where is the guidance or knowledge going going to take you if your experience is no better than theirs?)

-Honestly i have accepted others guidance quite easily in the past and overall was like a blind guiding another blind but the crashes gives you experience. In the stage of consciussness i am right know i prefer to rely on my self and be very carefull on what guidance i do accept. Anyway comparing perceptions doesnt hurt anyone balanced. You can take the feedback or not, its your responsability.
-Stages of isolation can be quite refreshing.
Sometimes the isolation is fear driven and the concept of comparison is from a state of consciousness that is unable to recognize fear or consciousness.
I'm not saying there isn't value in experience but you cannot rise above a condition from the level of mind in which the condition is created, you can only change the experience but never will you raise conscious awareness above fear if fear is included in your choices and experience. You will have to replace it with something greater. The unconscious habits of the ego to exclude trust in experience and instead use comparison to keep you occupied between good and evil will keep you focused on what you don't want while dreaming of what you think is real and what you do want. Its a very very slow approach to the goal of expanded consciousness.
I understand your desire and finding a Teacher is sometimes a slow process. Very few find or manifest a teacher in a lifetime because to surrender themselves to guidance is something the ego can't abide. The ego can't ask for help, and as long as the awareness is steeped in the duality of egoic pride and comparison it is distracted from true direction of mind and awareness of consciousness itself.

QUOTE(Jakare @ Apr 18, 2010, 03:34 AM) *

(This might affirm the difficulty in self guiding principles or the limitations of belief when if you begin to assume something outside of your own abilities. Who or what is the authority that might lead you to more than you yourself can know or accomplish. And what are they, if they can not give you feedback?)
-Right, but They can make the limit of your imagination wider and this gives you some extra room to play with your tight reality perception. Any help its welcome.

All help should be welcome but will you accept help if it makes your pride and need to compare squirm by taking you thru places you have found comfort in avoiding such as your feelings or the feelings of others?
QUOTE(Jakare @ Apr 18, 2010, 03:34 AM) *

(Where you are taking this, is into an idea that if you stumble around in the world blind, eventually after crashing into things and making blind assumptions, you might gain sight and understanding of what you can't see and didn't know anything about until you crashed into them and made some sort of assumption regarding the experience.)
-Basicaly yes and i can tell you that for the moment its been for the better. Why do you think i ended in this forum? It was in the hope of gain sight yes. Because as you gain sight you blind assumptions are less blind, arent they? and apart of the nootropics it seems like i find some qualified perceptions to compare mine with. Guidance too? how knows. Oh, aswell im improving my English, at least i hope so.
Thanks a lot for your Feedback Joesus. Its appreciated.
What is it that you are looking for and what have you been doing to get to what you are looking for if you could be less general about making the statement toward your intentions?
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Jakare
post Apr 18, 2010, 02:47 PM
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How would you know consciousness? How would you connect with it and how would you create personal development having never been where you think you want to go? IF your mind projects an idea and you take yourself toward the projection, and that projection is the goal, why aren't you already there if you know what it is you are reaching for?

-Thats part of the problem, How can you meassure up an object volume on a dark void if your not allowed to compare it with other objects? you cant. I dont know what consciousness this is because nearly the only information i can thrust in its my own stage of consciousness, other minds are not open to me so i only can make assumptions about others consciousness. But i can tell if my actual state is better or worst than it was before and i feel that at least im on my way which its pretty important to me, aswell as not falling on to intellectual conformity.



quote]
I'm not saying there isn't value in experience but you cannot rise above a condition from the level of mind in which the condition is created, you can only change the experience but never will you raise conscious awareness above fear if fear is included in your choices and experience. You will have to replace it with something greater. The unconscious habits of the ego to exclude trust in experience and instead use comparison to keep you occupied between good and evil will keep you focused on what you don't want while dreaming of what you think is real and what you do want. Its a very very slow approach to the goal of expanded consciousness.
-Yes but i think there is a critical amount of experience above of which the consciousness just happens in a healthy brain producing a qualitative change on the structure of thinking and being, in argot its called maturing process and occurs on every person at some degree at least. I trying to help that inertia and when its on my hand direct it to the best point. Now the main goal its keep growing until i get some more experience and intelligence to put it easy to the change when it does finally arrives.


I understand your desire and finding a Teacher is sometimes a slow process. Very few find or manifest a teacher in a lifetime because to surrender themselves to guidance is something the ego can't abide. The ego can't ask for help, and as long as the awareness is steeped in the duality of egoic pride and comparison it is distracted from true direction of mind and awareness of consciousness itself.
-Definitely im not giving up. Anyway if one person never find a teacher, whats the problem if he/she is been happy searching and snoopying around?


I will continue writing tomorrow, bed time.
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Joesus
post Apr 18, 2010, 06:56 PM
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QUOTE(Jakare @ Apr 18, 2010, 10:47 PM) *

How would you know consciousness? How would you connect with it and how would you create personal development having never been where you think you want to go? IF your mind projects an idea and you take yourself toward the projection, and that projection is the goal, why aren't you already there if you know what it is you are reaching for?

-Thats part of the problem, How can you meassure up an object volume on a dark void if your not allowed to compare it with other objects? you cant. I dont know what consciousness this is because nearly the only information i can thrust in its my own stage of consciousness, other minds are not open to me so i only can make assumptions about others consciousness. But i can tell if my actual state is better or worst than it was before and i feel that at least im on my way which its pretty important to me, aswell as not falling on to intellectual conformity.

Others are not open to you or you are not open to others?


QUOTE(Jakare @ Apr 18, 2010, 10:47 PM) *

I'm not saying there isn't value in experience but you cannot rise above a condition from the level of mind in which the condition is created, you can only change the experience but never will you raise conscious awareness above fear if fear is included in your choices and experience. You will have to replace it with something greater. The unconscious habits of the ego to exclude trust in experience and instead use comparison to keep you occupied between good and evil will keep you focused on what you don't want while dreaming of what you think is real and what you do want. Its a very very slow approach to the goal of expanded consciousness.
-Yes but i think there is a critical amount of experience above of which the consciousness just happens in a healthy brain producing a qualitative change on the structure of thinking and being, in argot its called maturing process and occurs on every person at some degree at least. I trying to help that inertia and when its on my hand direct it to the best point. Now the main goal its keep growing until i get some more experience and intelligence to put it easy to the change when it does finally arrives.

It's possible but more than likely after one has directed the awareness toward consciousness itself.

QUOTE(Jakare @ Apr 18, 2010, 10:47 PM) *

I understand your desire and finding a Teacher is sometimes a slow process. Very few find or manifest a teacher in a lifetime because to surrender themselves to guidance is something the ego can't abide. The ego can't ask for help, and as long as the awareness is steeped in the duality of egoic pride and comparison it is distracted from true direction of mind and awareness of consciousness itself.
-Definitely im not giving up. Anyway if one person never find a teacher, whats the problem if he/she is been happy searching and snoopying around?
No problem. If one is happy with just poking around then there are no expectations and results are not an issue of focus. The attention is given to poking around and having fun..


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Jakare
post Apr 18, 2010, 10:51 PM
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[quote name='Joesus' date='Apr 19, 2010, 04:56 AM' post='108980']
Others are not open to you or you are not open to others?
[/quote]

-I would think about it. But what i mean is the comunication issue of not being able to read others inner thoughts.

[quote name='Joesus' date='Apr 19, 2010, 04:56 AM' post='108980']
It's possible but more than likely after one has directed the awareness toward consciousness itself.
quote]

-Any suggestion about how to do that? As you can see my approach its quite simple and intuitive, just hope its not completly worthless.

[quote name='Joesus' date='Apr 19, 2010, 04:56 AM' post='108980']
No problem. If one is happy with just poking around then there are no expectations and results are not an issue of focus. The attention is given to poking around and having fun..
[/quote]

-Thats been my problem since i was a teenager, im not happy just poking around i needed to understand, to get more intelligent. If i achieve to do so maybe i can offer some true guidance or some meaningful work to others. But if not i prefer to shut up my mouth there are enough charlatans out there.
Anyway whats the problem with fun and poking around? Sometimes geting serious its the right answer but curiosity its a good thing. Fun its necessary. I agree that those two shouldnt be the main goal of your life but they are for good part of the way. Im not usually confortable with the assumption that you cant achieve anything important and at the same time having fun. This is inherited from the religious concept of sin and suffering. Life its too serious to not to make a joke pretty often.

[quote name='Joesus' date='Apr 19, 2010, 04:56 AM' post='108980']
What is it that you are looking for and what have you been doing to get to what you are looking for if you could be less general about making the statement toward your intentions?
[/quote]

-Firstly this is the deepest and finest conversation i have had in a long time, thank you Joesus. My goal is to develope myself enough to make some contribution to society. I would like to alleviate some not needed suffering if i can. For the moment im just preparing myself studying a cognitive-behavioral Psichology degree, learning English, enjoy life, introspection and light meditation.
I have been thinking on what you said about isolation and about the ego barriers to awareness but its difficult to be objective with yourself.
Sorry i still dont know how to quote parts of a post instead of the all post.
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Jakare
post Apr 18, 2010, 11:09 PM
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To retake the post topic Courage can involve finding happyness in a world of suffering. Courage its keeping your balance and integrity in a world of corruption.
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Joesus
post Apr 19, 2010, 01:57 PM
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QUOTE(Jakare @ Apr 19, 2010, 06:51 AM) *

QUOTE

Others are not open to you or you are not open to others?


-I would think about it. But what i mean is the comunication issue of not being able to read others inner thoughts.

Intuition doesn't come so easily if the mind if full of thoughts and ideas.
QUOTE(Jakare @ Apr 19, 2010, 06:51 AM) *

QUOTE

It's possible but more than likely after one has directed the awareness toward consciousness itself.



-Any suggestion about how to do that? As you can see my approach its quite simple and intuitive, just hope its not completly worthless.
Getting back to the intuitive thing. When the mind is full of ideas it is less likely to be still enough to be cognitive of values that aren't self prescribed and universal.
QUOTE(Jakare @ Apr 19, 2010, 06:51 AM) *

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No problem. If one is happy with just poking around then there are no expectations and results are not an issue of focus. The attention is given to poking around and having fun..



-Thats been my problem since i was a teenager, im not happy just poking around i needed to understand, to get more intelligent. If i achieve to do so maybe i can offer some true guidance or some meaningful work to others. But if not i prefer to shut up my mouth there are enough charlatans out there.
Anyway whats the problem with fun and poking around? Sometimes geting serious its the right answer but curiosity its a good thing. Fun its necessary. I agree that those two shouldnt be the main goal of your life but they are for good part of the way. Im not usually confortable with the assumption that you cant achieve anything important and at the same time having fun. This is inherited from the religious concept of sin and suffering. Life its too serious to not to make a joke pretty often.
Being focused does not preclude you from having fun or enjoying what you are doing, but to make a commitment and to be serious about something creates its own joy and exhilaration where fun becomes relative to the commitment rather than just mindless entertainment or instant gratification.
Fun to some, is often a distraction to commitment and any idea of focus and a goal.
QUOTE(Jakare @ Apr 19, 2010, 06:51 AM) *
QUOTE

What is it that you are looking for and what have you been doing to get to what you are looking for if you could be less general about making the statement toward your intentions?



-Firstly this is the deepest and finest conversation i have had in a long time, thank you Joesus. My goal is to develope myself enough to make some contribution to society. I would like to alleviate some not needed suffering if i can. For the moment im just preparing myself studying a cognitive-behavioral Psichology degree, learning English, enjoy life, introspection and light meditation.
I have been thinking on what you said about isolation and about the ego barriers to awareness but its difficult to be objective with yourself.
Sorry i still dont know how to quote parts of a post instead of the all post.

Gaining the understanding of how the ego works within yourself will help to deal with it in others. Suffering is born of attachment and the need to control within the delusions of beliefs and projections of beliefs.
When the mind is full of thoughts it does not hear or observe very well. In the process of stilling the mind one becomes cognitive to a witness of ones own thoughts feelings and actions that is bigger than the ego and its automatic response systems to blind identity or unconscious programs and the judgments created thru limitations of belief. When you see yourself react from fear or you compromise yourself, you can both observe the thoughts and the choices and see how they work for you. It also helps to get the reflection from one who has had the experience and practice in this.
Some are sometimes aware of this and others all the time aware of this. Witnessing is one of the traits of expanded conscious awareness but there is so much more such as refined intuition and the ability to cognize reality at all levels, rather than just at the level of separation where the individual is believed to die and end at death kind of thinking.

I've spent a few years in the study of meditation and its forgotten presence within religion. The direct experience within the spiritual teachings that led to the formation of religious beliefs and dogma are all but forgotten within the twists and turns of what religion has to say about our relationship to each other and the world around us.
I use a form of meditation and teach it sometimes to others, as well as teach a few people now and then to teach this traditional approach upon validation of a stable awareness of consciousness itself. No one teaches what I practice without having the constant presence of stability that is consciousness, in every thought feeling and action.

You have to realize that saving the world is not exactly the expanded version of conscious awareness. The very trials and tribulations of human endeavor are sometimes the necessity of growth and understanding, otherwise the mind returns to its habits of invoking fear based manifestations of ideas and beliefs if the mind is not cured of its superstitions and limitations of beliefs. The U.S. welfare system is a good example of how ignorance cannot be cured by treating symptoms. You can change the conditions but the mind within the changed condition hasn't itself learned to change the conditions of ignorance and so destroys the change to create fear and poverty conditions all over again. Consciousness does not expand by taking away someones suffering or an opportunity to grow and exert themselves consciously when you allow them to remain unconscious and feed them while letting them remain in a social coma of programming founded on stupidity.
Wisdom comes from experience not hypnotism, books or opinion and belief. Understanding the growth process of humanity comes from understanding ones self in the mechanics of cognitive relationships with ones self and the extension of ones self in the world around the self.
The ego limits the self to individualism and sees the world as separate and coming at the self. Consciousness when experienced extends itself into everything and so there is nothing foreign to ones self. Everything is an extension of your Self.
Heal yourself and you heal the world around you as your relationship with everything is seen from the perspective of understanding that is far superior to fear and superstition, or separation of yourself from your world and the experiences of it.

I can point you in a direction to more information if you wish.
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Jakare
post Apr 20, 2010, 06:32 PM
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Im very interested. i have never been able to empty my mind. My meditation technique is to let happen whatever comes to your mind and imagination travels, so it would be great if you can point me in the direction to that information thanks a lot Joesus.
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Joesus
post Apr 20, 2010, 10:48 PM
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QUOTE(Jakare @ Apr 21, 2010, 02:32 AM) *

Im very interested. i have never been able to empty my mind. My meditation technique is to let happen whatever comes to your mind and imagination travels, so it would be great if you can point me in the direction to that information thanks a lot Joesus.


I've sent you a PM.
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coberst
post Apr 25, 2010, 01:52 AM
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Personal heroism by means of individualism is a task requiring courage and self-confidence. Courage and self-confidence are characteristics of few sapiens, young or old. It is a path less traveled because it imposes terrifying burdens; these burdens display themselves by isolation from the common herd. “This move exposes the person to the sense of being completely crushed and annihilated because he sticks out so much, has to carry so much in himself.”

Personal heroism demands that one exposes her self, i.e. s/he sticks out dramatically from the herd. Those creative types who expose themselves so must create their own justification. Herein we find something that may seem illogical “the more you develop as a distinctive free and critical human being, the more guilt you have. Your very work accuses you; it makes you feel inferior. What right do you have to play God?” By what authority do you presume to introduce new meaning into the world?

Otto Rank was a colleague of Freud and, like Jung, carried theories far beyond those which Freud created. “Freud’s reality psychology emphasized essentially the influence of outer factor, of the outer milieu, upon the development of the individual and the formation of character,…I [was] opposed to this biological principle, the spiritual principle which alone is meaningful in the development of the essentially human.”

For Freud the id is the nucleus of being and it, the id, is subject to the natural laws. In such a frame the personality consists of layers of identification that “form the basis of the parental super-ego.” This might be properly considered to be the spiritual structure of the average individual, i.e. the average personality results from the natural influences developed against the naturally evolved super-ego.

Such a theory accounts for the average but does not account for the two creative extremes: the creative type and the so-called “neurotic” type. I would label the average personality to be a reactive individual; an individual who goes with the flow.

There are two personality types that make up the proactive personality: one creative type squeezes him or her self into a tight ball in reaction to the inner and outer milieu, i.e. the so-called “neurotic” and the second creative type who creates a personality wherein the ego “is strong just in the degree to which it is[i] the representative of this primal force and the strength of this force represented in the individual we call will.”

This second creative type, which Rank identifies as the creative type while he identifies the other creative type as the “neurotic”, creates “voluntarily from the impulsive elements and moreover to develop his standards beyond the identifications of the super-ego morality to an ideal formation which consciously guides and rules this creative will in terms of the personality.”

“The essential point in this process is the fact that he evolves his ego ideal from himself, not merely on the ground of the given but also of self-chosen factors which he strives after consciously.”


Quotes from [i]Will Therapy and Truth and Reality
by Otto Rank

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Jakare
post Apr 28, 2010, 08:48 PM
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QUOTE(coberst @ Apr 25, 2010, 11:52 AM) *


Herein we find something that may seem illogical “the more you develop as a distinctive free and critical human being, the more guilt you have. Your very work accuses you; it makes you feel inferior. What right do you have to play God?” By what authority do you presume to introduce new meaning into the world?



I would say solitude is an important issue aswell but the older the less annoying.
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Jim
post Nov 12, 2010, 12:45 PM
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QUOTE(maximus242 @ Mar 28, 2010, 11:51 AM) *

I think courage is acting in spite of overwhelming fear.


I agree with this. I recently heard a speech by a US Army Ranger who was involved in the Black Hawk Down incident. He went back into the firefight in Somalia to rescue his downed comrades, after taking intense point blank automatic machine gun fire and seeing one of his best friend's head get blown off by a 50 caliber, and having to wash the blood from out of the Humvee. He claimed it was his peace in knowing he was going to heaven that allowed him to do that, so that either way he "knew he was going home" whether that be to his family in America, or his family in Heaven. Now whether you believe in God, or Jesus, or whatever is completely up to you. What I do know is that it would take an immense amount of courage to go back literally into Hell to save someone else's life like that. Some may say this isn't courage, that it was lunacy, to which I can keep an open mind. But in my opinion that was intensely courageous.
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maximus242
post Nov 13, 2010, 02:58 PM
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I find also that the more frightening things you live through the less things tend to scare you. When you realize I made it through this, through that, suddenly, its not all so frightening anymore.

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Jessica T
post Oct 25, 2012, 06:17 AM
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Courage is all in the mind. Courage can be observed from an outside party as one going into an uncomfortable or dangerous situation to obtain a desired goal. The goal can be personal or when people think of courageous, usually some noble task. I see the most courageous act as confronting your fears?
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evita123
post Oct 20, 2013, 09:01 AM
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QUOTE(ofmelancholy788 @ Apr 10, 2010, 01:30 PM) *

QUOTE(maximus242 @ Mar 28, 2010, 11:51 AM) *

I think courage is acting in spite of overwhelming fear.

maybe it is not feeling fear


But it is possible to be really scared yet still be courageous, isn't it..?
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Justin Garner
post Jan 08, 2014, 01:41 AM
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Most philosophers and psychologists agree that courage involves persistence in danger or hardship. However, some argue that courage is synonymous with fearlessness, while others suggest that the presence or the absence of fear has nothing to do with courage.
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Michael Wilson
post Mar 17, 2015, 09:00 PM
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The quality of mind or spirit that enables a person to face difficulty, danger, pain, etc., without fear; bravery. Obsolete. the heart as the source of emotion. have the courage of one's convictions, to act in accordance with one's beliefs, especially in spite of criticism. Courage is love. smile.gif
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Alan peterson
post Mar 25, 2015, 03:33 AM
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In his acclaimed book The Courage to Be Tillich sees courage as an “ethical reality”, i.e. courage is foremost a conceptual reality, which is rooted in the whole gestalt of human existence and “ultimately in the structure of being itself. It must be considered ontologically [body-mind in action] in order to be understood ethically”.
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