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> The use of Math on the Path, Using math as a tool for self discovery
Dakota
post Apr 25, 2005, 04:48 PM
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Hello all,
So, what I really want to know concerning math is:

1
(Can I do this through math?)
What areas of math are most important to learn for a person(like me) who doesn't know math very well at all and, wants to learn exclusively for purposes of expressing self discovery, on many levels.
2
(What is math)
Is math simply, a refined language devised for better interpreting understanding and, transmitting phenomena?
3
(How do you feel about math?)
For you math-magicians out there: In what ways has math helped you; on the whole? What are some of your views on math and peoples attitudes towards it: misconceptions, misunderstandings etc. What has math done for you as an individual seeking different answers for different quensions?

I tried to ask these question best I could. Basically I'm just looking to get some basic knowledge from the pro's you know-what is it woth to me? I'm just very intriged by math in general but don't have much experience with it. What is the importance of math on the path, the journey of life?
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post Apr 25, 2005, 05:21 PM
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Finding and following patterns, for one.

Parallels.

The fundamental nature of mathematics and its relationship with and to the cosmos, macro cosmically and micro cosmically.
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post Apr 25, 2005, 06:19 PM
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"Parallel straight lines do not meet one another in either direction," Euclid.

The #4 universally evokes a sense of foundation.
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post Apr 25, 2005, 06:23 PM
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Mathematics

Sew the seeds of mathematical logical thinking.

Greek word that means things that is learned. Studies shapes occurring in space, which may be thought of as a world of points, surfaces, and solids. Studies the properties of different shapes and the relations between them and how to measure them. Clearly defines the ideas that are to be discussed and clearly states the assumptions that can be made. Then, on the basis of both the definitions and assumptions, it forges a chain of proofs, each link in the chain being as strong as any other.

The secret to life can be found in mathematical thought.

All that is needed is interest and an un-distracted head.

“They say, what they say, let them say,” motto of Marischal College, Aberdeen.

“The science of pure mathematics, in its modern developments, may claim to be the most original creation of the human spirit,” A.N. Whitehead (1925).

“It is easier to square the circle than to get round a mathematician,” Auguste de Moran.

Over the centuries, mathematics has become one of the most useful and fascinating divisions of human knowledge.

The human race’s view of the world has at its foundations the principles of mathematics. From city planning to developments in outer space, to measurements of space and time as pertaining to the relationships of objects within a given space at any given time, it has the ability to be perceived from many simultaneous points of view.

Through the use of all different types of mathematics, especially the field of geometrics, there have been many applications in the realm of art. Artists have attempted quite successfully to reveal to the world the beautiful experience of mathematics and the underlying basic human need of mathematical form and structure in the world.

It helps us in many important areas of study and has the power to solve some of the deepest puzzles man must face. It is the study of quantities and relations through the use of numbers and symbols. Arithmetic deals with quantities expressed by numbers. Algebra uses quantities and relations expressed by symbols. Geometry involves quantities associated with figures in space. Trigonometry is concerned with the measurement of angles and the relationships of angles. Analytic geometry applies algebra to geometric studies. And calculus works with pairs of associated quantities and the way one quantity changes in relation to the other.

In the study of geometry one can follow the gradual unfolding of mathematical thought from its earliest beginnings to present time. The periods of important geometrical interest that have played such a large part in the development of not only mathematics but in the evolution of the human mind started to sprout up during the Greek period (300 BC-300 AD), Cartesian geometry and the Calculus period (1620-1720 AD), non-Euclidean, Projective and Algebraic geometric period (1800 AD onward), and the Foundations period (1880 AD onward). The history of mathematics has a direct bearing upon the concepts of measure and control, which are an integral part in the organization of society from its city planning to the proportions of its doorways and the movement of its people. This is an attempt to analyze, from all angles, a gestalt, if you will, and compare geometrises and other theories as relevant to not only the human experience and perception of space and time in mathematics but also as to its significance and applications in the realm of art.

Geometry is an important branch of mathematics and consists of finding many interesting and unusual facts about points, lines, and planes. It also includes finding lengths, areas, and volumes of geometric figures. The name geometry comes from Greek words that mean earth and measure. Excavations of ancient cities show that land and buildings were carefully laid out. Egyptian architects and engineers designed and built huge temples and pyramids. They also used geometry to determine the size of their fields, and to find the boundaries of their farms after the yearly floods of the Nile River washed away old landmarks.

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post Apr 25, 2005, 06:26 PM
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Pi in the Sky: Counting, Thinking, and Being (1992) – John D. Barrow

· Mathematics has been founded upon the certainty that comes from speaking the language of science, a symbolic language that banishes ambiguity and doubt, the only language with a built-in logic, which enables us to intimate communion with the innermost working of nature.
· As science has progressed, it has become more mathematical in its expression and more unified in its structure.
· Why do we look to mathematics for answers to ultimate questions about the nature of physical reality?
· If we look at any technologically advanced society, we find them to be founded upon the language of mathematics.
· The development of our understanding of the natural world around us and within us.
· The work of scientific society is closely linked to number: to measuring, counting, surveying, dividing, and making patterns.
Mathematics works as a description of the world and the things that occur within it.
· The world dances to a mathematical tune.
· What are numbers and how did we come to discover them? But, did we really discover them, or perhaps we merely invented them?
· Is it a natural activity for the human mind or just a curious skill possessed by few?
· Pythagoras and his followers saw the numerical as a symbolic picture of the true meaning of the universe.
· They believed all numbers to be of two sorts, either whole numbers (like 1,2,3, …) or fractions which were made by dividing any whole number by another. These were called rational numbers.
· Eventually it was proved that the square root of 2 could not be expressed as the ratio of any two whole numbers.
· These later became known as irrational numbers, (3,5,6,7, etc).
· The world is not static but Pythagorean’s numbers were.
· Euclid’s pristine geometry had subtle influences upon other areas of human thinking. All architecture and artistic composition, all navigation and astronomy.
· Geometry stood for absolute logical certainty.
· The discovery of non-Euclidean geometry was, for a long time regarded as a curiosity, probably flawed in some way. Although curved surfaces clearly did exist, almost everyone believed that the physical space we live and move in, was really Euclidean.
· Other geometries could exist.
· The term ‘non-Euclidean’ came to be employed as a label for unconventional, non-traditional, or radical thinking.
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post Apr 25, 2005, 06:28 PM
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"Everything either is or is not," Aristotle.
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Rick
post Apr 26, 2005, 10:54 AM
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Math doesn't seem to me to be very useful for self-discovery, unless one views the self as including the physical universe. Math is most useful for problem solving, describing, and understanding in the physical world.

Mathematics is a formal language describing the number, shape, and place aspects of reality. As a pure abstraction, mathematics is a subset of the class of ideas. All ideas can be represented as strings of symbols. Therefore, mathematics is a subset of the set of all strings.
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post Apr 26, 2005, 11:11 AM
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The self is the physical universe. Artists have proven that body/figure is but mathematical proportion.
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Rick
post Apr 26, 2005, 11:18 AM
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That's a nice analogy. Here's another proof:

When you are in a room with other people, the only way you can figure out which one is you is by applying the laws of geometry.
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post Apr 26, 2005, 12:17 PM
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weight, height, mass, volume, etc.?
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rhymer
post Apr 26, 2005, 12:30 PM
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QUOTE (Trip like I do @ Apr 26, 07:11 PM)
The self is the physical universe. Artists have proven tha body/figure is but mathematical proportion.

Does this mean that the self suffered the Big Bang, or ancestors of the self suffered?
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Hey Hey
post Apr 26, 2005, 12:37 PM
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QUOTE (Trip like I do @ Apr 26, 03:19 AM)
"Parallel straight lines do not meet one another in either direction," Euclid.

The #4 universally evokes a sense of foundation.

Parallel lines always meet each other if you stretch them out for long enough and then look at them from a great distance! Just kidding? Well show me any measuring technique that doesn't alter the "measured property" and I'll show you Heisenberg.
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Hey Hey
post Apr 26, 2005, 12:38 PM
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QUOTE (Rick @ Apr 26, 07:54 PM)

Mathematics is a formal language describing the number, shape, and place aspects of reality.

better if it was "..... and place aspects of what we think is reality."
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Rick
post Apr 26, 2005, 01:04 PM
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There is an objective reality.
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Rick
post Apr 26, 2005, 01:08 PM
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QUOTE (Hey Hey @ Apr 26, 01:37 PM)
Well show me any measuring technique that doesn't alter the "measured property" and I'll show you Heisenberg.

If I use a laser interferometer to measure the change in length of a steel bar with temperature, the length of the bar is not affected by the laser. Heisenberg's uncertainty principle applies only to quantum-mechanical phenomena.
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post Apr 26, 2005, 03:51 PM
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QUOTE (rhymer @ Apr 26, 03:30 PM)
QUOTE (Trip like I do @ Apr 26, 07:11 PM)
The self is the physical universe.  Artists have proven tha body/figure is but mathematical proportion.

Does this mean that the self suffered the Big Bang, or ancestors of the self suffered?

Yeah, when the sperm that was me, swam out of my father's testicles and dashed headlong, in front of and before every other potential me's, toward the egg resting in my mother's womb and thus ignited the big bang that is me.
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post Apr 26, 2005, 03:55 PM
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And my father and mother before me and their parents before them, etc., back to either Adam and Eve, or to the atoms of the primordial soup spewed forth from the mother of all big bangs, the Big Bang.
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Dakota
post Apr 26, 2005, 04:29 PM
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Nice Don, Big Bang! That's rich! HA HA AH Oh the irony.
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post Apr 26, 2005, 04:30 PM
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QUOTE (Hey Hey @ Apr 26, 03:37 PM)
QUOTE (Trip like I do @ Apr 26, 03:19 AM)
"Parallel straight lines do not meet one another in either direction,"  Euclid.

The #4 universally evokes a sense of foundation.

Parallel lines always meet each other if you stretch them out for long enough and then look at them from a great distance!

That is true, however that is just an illusion and is not an objective fact or reality.
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post Apr 26, 2005, 04:32 PM
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QUOTE (Dakota @ Apr 26, 07:29 PM)
Nice Dan, Bib Bang! That's rich! HA HA AH

The name's Don, or Trip, if you prefer. There is a Dan on this site though, a scientist.

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Dakota
post Apr 26, 2005, 04:56 PM
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Ok cool so, math is just a language then. A very caculated refined way of interpreting your own realizations. An irreplacable and real way of expressing and presenting discoveries/inventions of the mind.

I can see how math has benefited man beyond,"measure"! HA HA! But when it comes right down to it, that's all it's good for; in the face of death who cares about all this but math itself?

On that same token however I could see how math, given the chance, could more efficiantly express a given point as opossed to our current preferred style of language-communication. It is 100% more universal and much more complex and presice. Do you think we could ever ballance/combine/integrate the two to create a more,"mathematical-language"? If so how much easier would it be to emphasize a given point; spiritually, socially, politically or whatever the situation called for.

Do you think math has this potential or is my idea/question ignorant/confused?
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Rick
post Apr 27, 2005, 09:54 AM
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One school of philosphers in the early 20th century (an offshoot of the logical positivist school) tried to clear up the confusion by doing just what Dakota suggests. They invented a new mathematical language to do philosophy in. The effort was not successful, and philosophers have now reverted to natural language.
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post Apr 27, 2005, 05:33 PM
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philosophy deals in quality, math does not
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Dan
post Apr 27, 2005, 05:34 PM
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'twas me, unlogged
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post Apr 27, 2005, 05:40 PM
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How old are you guys (number), how many more do you get before your number is up?

Add it up! There is some math for ya > = .^ + //.

Math deals with linear progression in time.

1 second, 2 second, 3 second, 4

That math just passed by,
It's gone, there it is no more.
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post Apr 27, 2005, 05:45 PM
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Math is the path, that along with many more, converges to the single fundamental path.

That leads to self discovery, yet that path is differnt for each of us, and distances required on various paths tread, vary from person to person, depending on the idiosyncratic need.
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post Apr 27, 2005, 05:57 PM
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QUOTE (Rick @ Apr 27, 12:54 PM)
One school of philosphers in the early 20th century (an offshoot of the logical positivist school) tried to clear up the confusion by doing just what Dakota suggests. They invented a new mathematical language to do philosophy in. The effort was not successful, and philosophers have now reverted to natural language.
The Old School Philosophers employed Mathematics as part of their metaphysical doctrines and journeys. They were succesful Rick, for look at how long their theories persisted and influenced thinking, building, and life in general, of their times, and of ours.

" < Let no man enter here without geometry > "

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post Apr 27, 2005, 06:04 PM
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QUOTE (Unknown @ Apr 27, 08:33 PM)
philosophy deals in quality, math does not

And what of science Daniel?

Usually things are deemed to have a certain quality if they are seen as mathematically proportional, no?
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Dan
post Apr 27, 2005, 06:14 PM
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science is more than math
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post Apr 27, 2005, 06:19 PM
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Yes, but fundamentally, it is built upon the concrete foundations of mathematical formula. Without math there would be no science. Math is the ultimate science. The science of mathematical proportion and formula.
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