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> Stablon alongside Deprenyl - experiences/suggestions?
Insum
post Jun 01, 2008, 09:19 AM
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Hi, new here, this is my first post so I'll introduce myself as someone who is trying to fight depression and improve mood, libido, motivation, fight anxiety, and improve concentration/focus.

I was pointed here by someone on another board and have been researching Stablon + Deprenyl.

They both look like they could benefit me together, but I am wondering if it will be safe for long-term use and at the following dosages which I am about to start in a few weeks:

Stablon: 3-4 x 12.5mg daily
Deprenyl: 5mg (possibly 10mg) daily, mon-fri

I have been struggling with depression for a while, have been on effexor and am currently on wellbutrin which I will be stopping before starting the new protocol. I also have low-normal testosterone levels (310-370 ng/mL range) so I know this could also be the issue, however dr's are hesitant to treat me with TRT at the moment. It is definately an option in the future though, but I know I also had depression in my teens when my testosterone/libido/etc seemed normal at the time.

Thanks for any help/recommendations.
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LifeMirage
post Jun 01, 2008, 11:40 AM
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QUOTE(Insum @ Jun 01, 2008, 12:19 PM) *
Hi, new here, this is my first post so I'll introduce myself as someone who is trying to fight depression and improve mood, libido, motivation, fight anxiety, and improve concentration/focus.

I was pointed here by someone on another board and have been researching Stablon + Deprenyl.

They both look like they could benefit me together, but I am wondering if it will be safe for long-term use and at the following dosages which I am about to start in a few weeks:

Stablon: 3-4 x 12.5mg daily
Deprenyl: 5mg (possibly 10mg) daily, mon-fri

I have been struggling with depression for a while, have been on effexor and am currently on wellbutrin which I will be stopping before starting the new protocol. I also have low-normal testosterone levels (310-370 ng/mL range) so I know this could also be the issue, however dr's are hesitant to treat me with TRT at the moment. It is definately an option in the future though, but I know I also had depression in my teens when my testosterone/libido/etc seemed normal at the time.

Thanks for any help/recommendations.


Hello and welcome to our forum.

I'm sorry to see your doctors do not acknowledge and treat your low hormone levels. May I suggest checking the listings of medical doctors involved with the A4M and LEF groups. Both have far greater knowledge and experience in treating such conditions. You may also want to check your DHEA-S levels as well especially if you suffer from any related stress or anxiety disorders.

While the combination of those 2 drugs can be safely used, I would suggest adding 1 new compound (especially when dealing with drugs) at a time. Ideally for 2-4 weeks to determine exactly what effects that compound has on you. Afterwards you will know what the effects of an SSRE or MAO-B inhibitor are on you, which will give you a better idea of which neurotransmitters are involved with which symptoms.

Have you tried Orthomolecular compounds for your depression?

SAMe, Inositol, 5-HTP, Adapton, L-DOPA, pure EPA, etc.

If in your case hormones is the key factor in your symptoms aside from BHRT therapy pregnenolone may be of some benefit.

How old are you and are you currently taking anything aside from wellbutrin?
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Insum
post Jun 01, 2008, 12:26 PM
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Thanks for the response. I think I will start out with the deprenyl and then add in the stablon in this case.

I am 30 yrs old. Recently I have just started taking 25mg of oral dhea in the morning (my dhea levels were around 280 when last tested) and I've started taking 50mg of oral pregnenalone (25mg in am 25 in pm). Once in a while I take 1mg of lorazepam when feeling anxious, or before bed. I take omega 3/6/9 and also started taking betaine HCL as well as enzymes to see if it's a metabolic disorder causing low test.

My endo wanted to put me on 5gram androgel. She would not offer HCG so I refused, knowing that 5grams, without HCG is not enough and I will crash in a month or two on it. I also do not want to go on TRT without HCG...and because of this I went to see a urologist who ended up telling me there is nothing wrong with me and my levels (being low-normal) are normal. He said that because I am having regular sex (even though I take cialis), that I do not suffer hypogonadism. He then gave me a script for cialis and told me that treating depression will likely raise my testosterone. I won't be seeing him again. I am likely going to see Dr. John Crisler this summer when the funds permit, I have heard great things about him.

I have had an MRI of my pituitary done, and a micro adenoma was found. Thing is it seems to be non-secreting. My prolactin, etc seems fine. Seems that only my testosterone, dhea, and free t4 are low-normal. My estradiol came in around 30. My LH is around 5 and my FSH is around 9. This seems to point at me being primary, but is inconclusive. My SHBG is around 20 or 21, bottom of range. I think this is helping to keep me from feeling like complete trash as it raises my bio-available test to just below midrange.

It seems I am also borderline hypothyroid, my free t4 is only .1 over the bottom range, while my TSH is normal (midrange). I need to get free t3 tested to be sure. I have thought of adding in a low dose of armour (under 1 grain) to the above protocol of deprenyl + stablon, until I am able to see Dr. John. I know it will help the other meds to kick in faster, which is what I kind of need right now.

I have tried SAMe, l-dopa, trytophan, several adaptogens including relora, ashwaganda, astralagus. I did not see any major change.

I just bought 2 months worth of deprenyl and stablon, I'm hoping it will work to get me feeling more normal, until I am able to get my hormones dealt with properly. But like I was saying, I also had issues with depression when I was in my teens (and it runs in my family) - but I had a very active libido then and a lot of energy. I did not have my hormones tested though until I was 29 so I am unsure if I have clinical depression or if it's solely related only to my hormone levels. I think it's a combination.
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LifeMirage
post Jun 01, 2008, 01:06 PM
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QUOTE(Insum @ Jun 01, 2008, 03:26 PM) *
Thanks for the response. I think I will start out with the deprenyl and then add in the stablon in this case.

I am 30 yrs old. Recently I have just started taking 25mg of oral dhea in the morning (my dhea levels were around 280 when last tested) and I've started taking 50mg of oral pregnenalone (25mg in am 25 in pm). Once in a while I take 1mg of lorazepam when feeling anxious, or before bed. I take omega 3/6/9 and also started taking betaine HCL as well as enzymes to see if it's a metabolic disorder causing low test.


Ideal blood levels for DHEA-S is around 400 to 560 (mcg/dL) for healthy men. I would consider monthly testing to ensure you get your levels where you want them to be and determine which dose will maintain that effect. Daily use of pregnenolone can prevent benzodiazepine-induced sedation to some degree but as long as your sleeping fine this would not appear to be a problem.

QUOTE
My endo wanted to put me on 5gram androgel. She would not offer HCG so I refused, knowing that 5grams, without HCG is not enough and I will crash in a month or two on it. I also do not want to go on TRT without HCG...and because of this I went to see a urologist who ended up telling me there is nothing wrong with me and my levels (being low-normal) are normal. He said that because I am having regular sex (even though I take cialis), that I do not suffer hypogonadism. He then gave me a script for cialis and told me that treating depression will likely raise my testosterone. I won't be seeing him again. I am likely going to see Dr. John Crisler this summer when the funds permit, I have heard great things about him.


I wish you luck it's quite difficult to find an excellent doctor who is willing to work with your goals.

QUOTE
I have had an MRI of my pituitary done, and a micro adenoma was found. Thing is it seems to be non-secreting. My prolactin, etc seems fine. Seems that only my testosterone, dhea, and free t4 are low-normal. My estradiol came in around 30. My LH is around 5 and my FSH is around 9. This seems to point at me being primary, but is inconclusive. My SHBG is around 20 or 21, bottom of range. I think this is helping to keep me from feeling like complete trash as it raises my bio-available test to just below midrange.

It seems I am also borderline hypothyroid, my free t4 is only .1 over the bottom range, while my TSH is normal (midrange). I need to get free t3 tested to be sure. I have thought of adding in a low dose of armour (under 1 grain) to the above protocol of deprenyl + stablon, until I am able to see Dr. John. I know it will help the other meds to kick in faster, which is what I kind of need right now.


Sounds like a light/mild case of Prolactinomas. They should do several prolactin tests over the course of a few days at different times to rule this out since prolactin levels can occur in spikes. Especially if your sexual refractory period is very high thats a possible sign.

QUOTE
I have tried SAMe, l-dopa, trytophan, several adaptogens including relora, ashwaganda, astralagus. I did not see any major change.

I just bought 2 months worth of deprenyl and stablon, I'm hoping it will work to get me feeling more normal, until I am able to get my hormones dealt with properly. But like I was saying, I also had issues with depression when I was in my teens (and it runs in my family) - but I had a very active libido then and a lot of energy. I did not have my hormones tested though until I was 29 so I am unsure if I have clinical depression or if it's solely related only to my hormone levels. I think it's a combination.


Sounds like genetics combined with Prolactinomas induced hormonal changes. Has your depression gotten worse over time?
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Insum
post Jun 01, 2008, 01:43 PM
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The depression hasn't gotten worse, but at times anxiety can. The depression can only be described as long-term moderate depression. I never feel completely horrible but I never feel quite 'good' for an extended period, and I've never felt quite 'right'. Brain fog, lethargy, sluggishness, lack of motivation, lack of confidence at times, lack of concentration (ADD like symptoms), etc..these have been ongoing for years.

I have noticed periods of hyperness, but it's not really what I would call a manic episode that would extend over days or weeks, but maybe at certain times of the day, on random days. On a day to day basis, I would say I feel most anxious in the late afternoon, between 3-6pm. If I had bipolar disorder to any degree, I'm sure the wellbutrin would have had a very negative effect on me but it hasn't. I'm also thinking of looking into adrenal fatigue.

Refractory period is definately not like it used to be. It's very long now. I also have a very hard time reaching ejacualtion during sex or through any type of stimulation. It was always fairly bad (took me forever to finish), got worse with the use of effexor (impossible to finish at times), and I think it's even stayed a bit worse since quiting effexor a while ago.
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LifeMirage
post Jun 02, 2008, 07:11 PM
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QUOTE(Insum @ Jun 01, 2008, 04:43 PM) *
The depression hasn't gotten worse, but at times anxiety can. The depression can only be described as long-term moderate depression. I never feel completely horrible but I never feel quite 'good' for an extended period, and I've never felt quite 'right'. Brain fog, lethargy, sluggishness, lack of motivation, lack of confidence at times, lack of concentration (ADD like symptoms), etc..these have been ongoing for years.


Adrenals are probably playing a role in your anxiety. The other mental effects are going to be harder to pinpoint but thyroid could be a mild factor.

QUOTE
I have noticed periods of hyperness, but it's not really what I would call a manic episode that would extend over days or weeks, but maybe at certain times of the day, on random days. On a day to day basis, I would say I feel most anxious in the late afternoon, between 3-6pm. If I had bipolar disorder to any degree, I'm sure the wellbutrin would have had a very negative effect on me but it hasn't. I'm also thinking of looking into adrenal fatigue.


Considering your DHEA-S levels I think it may be adrenals to a strong degree. Raising your DHEA intake should help determine this.

QUOTE
Refractory period is definately not like it used to be. It's very long now. I also have a very hard time reaching ejacualtion during sex or through any type of stimulation. It was always fairly bad (took me forever to finish), got worse with the use of effexor (impossible to finish at times), and I think it's even stayed a bit worse since quiting effexor a while ago.


Prolactin is the main factor in RP. What may help is taking 250-500 mg of L-DOPA an hour prior to a sexual activity. This will normally block any prolactin surge to a good degree.
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Insum
post Jun 03, 2008, 09:23 AM
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Thanks again.

Do you think stablon or deprenyl will cause further issues with the adrenals?

Also, how about a low dose of caber or dostinex?
Or should I be careful with that?

I've tried taking high doses of P-5-P as well but not for long periods of time. Vitex is also something I have tried. I will try the l-dopa. Currently I am supplementing with L-Tyrosine as well, which I think is a precursor.
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LifeMirage
post Jun 03, 2008, 10:18 AM
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QUOTE(Insum @ Jun 03, 2008, 12:23 PM) *
Thanks again.

Do you think stablon or deprenyl will cause further issues with the adrenals?


If so not directly. I'm not too concerned about an interaction there.

QUOTE
Also, how about a low dose of caber or dostinex?
Or should I be careful with that?


Well if aiming for RP as needed probably not the best choice. For long term deprenyl is a superior choice.

QUOTE
I've tried taking high doses of P-5-P as well but not for long periods of time. Vitex is also something I have tried. I will try the l-dopa. Currently I am supplementing with L-Tyrosine as well, which I think is a precursor.


P-5-P will only make a mild difference. The main way to inhibit prolactin is to increase Dopamine levels (either in the body or brain). This is something deprenyl can do over time but L-DOPA can effectively do as well (especially in the body). (1) While L-Tyrosine is a precursor to L-DOPA it's also a precursor to several other compounds in the body and will not have much of a direct effect due to multiple metabolic conversions. 250-500 mg taken 30 min prior as needed should provide the ideal effects. When you do go on deprenyl 250 mg as needed or even less if any at all may be needed once MAO-B levels are more completely inhibited.


(1) Endocrinol Exp. 1982 Mar;16(1):3-8., Angiology. 1991 Sep;42(9):691-5, J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1978 Dec;47(6):1341-7. Journal of Endocrinology, Vol 68, Issue 3, 369-381
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Insum
post Jun 06, 2008, 11:59 AM
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Thanks again for all the help.
Looking forward to get these meds in and to start this new protocol.

I think I will start with the deprenyl and then add in stablon after 2 weeks, while supplementing with L-dopa periodically when needed.

My endo went out of network, she was going to give me androgel. Now I'm definately stuck paying cash for an anti-aging doctor because uro's around here don't seem open to treating me unless I drop to the 200-level range. Androgel is so expensive too, it's tempting to source my own T-cyp + arimidex from BB friends until I see a new doctor (or even sourcing my own HCG and doing some mono-therapy with that till I see a new dr). I know I will feel a lot better on this alone, even without the deprenyl + stablon. Maybe the improvements on deprenyl and stablon will cause a natural increase in test though...I'm not expecting they will very much though, maybe indirectly by effecting cortisol / stress levels.
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LifeMirage
post Jun 06, 2008, 01:22 PM
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QUOTE(Insum @ Jun 06, 2008, 02:59 PM) *
Thanks again for all the help.
Looking forward to get these meds in and to start this new protocol.

I think I will start with the deprenyl and then add in stablon after 2 weeks, while supplementing with L-dopa periodically when needed.

My endo went out of network, she was going to give me androgel. Now I'm definately stuck paying cash for an anti-aging doctor because uro's around here don't seem open to treating me unless I drop to the 200-level range. Androgel is so expensive too, it's tempting to source my own T-cyp + arimidex from BB friends until I see a new doctor (or even sourcing my own HCG and doing some mono-therapy with that till I see a new dr). I know I will feel a lot better on this alone, even without the deprenyl + stablon. Maybe the improvements on deprenyl and stablon will cause a natural increase in test though...I'm not expecting they will very much though, maybe indirectly by effecting cortisol / stress levels.


I could easily provide you with sources for nearly any drug you need. Thankfully unlike BB we can do that here.
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Insum
post Jun 09, 2008, 07:37 PM
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That would be great. Feel free to PM/email me with any reliable sources you may have. I tried PMing you but it seems my PMs aren't working. The hcg I can get is only available in ampules and I've been trying to source multi-draw vials. Makes more sense for larger quantities and less mixing / moving around involved especially when it's potency can be altered in the reconstitution phase.

I'm a little hesitant with ordering t-cyp or enan. online though (and possibly with ordering armour), even though I'd be using it for temporary HRT purposes until I sort myself with a longterm protocol and dr. My card # + name may get stored in a database..but if it's a trustworthy source and safe then I may do it instead of sourcing it locally.

I also know that I can choose to try out HCG monotherapy for treatment, but it may take several months until it revs up the engine so to speak and gets the testes producing at a normal level. Would you suggest that a new patient try this method first...or use a combination of test and hcg to get his levels up to par faster, and then possibly attempt monotherapy in the future?
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LifeMirage
post Jun 10, 2008, 12:49 PM
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QUOTE(Insum @ Jun 09, 2008, 10:37 PM) *
That would be great. Feel free to PM/email me with any reliable sources you may have. I tried PMing you but it seems my PMs aren't working. The hcg I can get is only available in ampules and I've been trying to source multi-draw vials. Makes more sense for larger quantities and less mixing / moving around involved especially when it's potency can be altered in the reconstitution phase.

I'm a little hesitant with ordering t-cyp or enan. online though (and possibly with ordering armour), even though I'd be using it for temporary HRT purposes until I sort myself with a longterm protocol and dr. My card # + name may get stored in a database..but if it's a trustworthy source and safe then I may do it instead of sourcing it locally.

I also know that I can choose to try out HCG monotherapy for treatment, but it may take several months until it revs up the engine so to speak and gets the testes producing at a normal level. Would you suggest that a new patient try this method first...or use a combination of test and hcg to get his levels up to par faster, and then possibly attempt monotherapy in the future?


I got your pm. I wanted to reply with the most up-to-date information. Expect a reply shortly.
There are no laws regarding ordering non DEA (state or federal) controlled drugs from outside the us. Ordering prescription drugs from within the US is illegal.

As knowledgeable as I am in various health matters (especially pertaining to neurological health) it would be abit difficult to suggest one course of action strongly over another without constant blood testing, however I would suggest the monotherapy first.
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Insum
post Jun 10, 2008, 02:41 PM
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I completely agree with constant blood testing. I was going to base it off my last bloodwork and then do a saliva test in one month if my insurance hasn't kicked back in by then for normal bloodwork. I am just inbetween jobs atm so my insurance is about to cut out for a bit and it may take another month or more until it kicks in again. Normally I'd be fine (I'm Canadian) but I just moved to the US 2 yrs ago on a work visa and am now stuck without insurance after the .com startup I was working for shutdown. Once the cash starts flowing in again and the insurance starts up I will get on board with an A4M dr.

The reason I was wondering about monotherapy was due to my last bloodwork. My LH was not low, but my test was. It's possible I am primary. I've also tried a low dosed serm on my own for a while (toremifene) without much change in the way I feel (but a large increase in acne did occur). Here's my latest bloodwork:

LH 5.6 (1.2 - 11)
FSH 7.1 (1.6 - 9.7)

Total Testosterone: 372 (400-1080) LOW
SHBG: 12 (11-80)
Bioavailable Test: 280 (131-682)
Free Test: 105 (47-244)
DHEAS: 281 (120-520)
Prolactin: 11.3 (5.0-18)
Estradiol: 30 (<66)
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Insum
post Jun 11, 2008, 08:29 PM
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Here is another piece of bloodwork which leads me to believe I may benefit from taking armour:

Free T4 (non-dialysis) 0.9 (0.8-2.2) ng/dL
TSH 3rd generation 1.74 (0.5-4.0) mIU/L

IMO my TSH should be higher if my T4 level is low. Although I do not know my free t3 levels

Another piece of bloodwork which baffles me, I am very LOW in cholesterol, the building block of hormones, even after attempts at raising it (higher intake of animal fats and saturated fat, eggs, steak, milk, cheese, coconut oil - taken with enzymes, betain hcl and oxbile supplements for absorption aid) yet it still remains low. Something odd is definately going on

Cholesterol 107 (<200) LOW mg/dL
HDL Cholesterol 31 (>39) LOW mg/dL
Triglycerides 35 (<200) mg/dL
LDL 69 (<130) mg/dL
CHOL/HDL Ratio 3.5 (0.0 - 4.9)

It may be quite possible that this metabolic issue is causing issues with ALL hormones, including DHEA-S, T4/T3/, Testosterone.
I'm really confused with it though and ready to treat the symptoms first while trying to figure out what the metabolic issues may be. I eat and supplement well.
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AngelDust
post Jun 16, 2010, 06:37 AM
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Insum you are the biggest moron i know.
Drugs are not sweets that you popp to self medicate.
HCG has no link to depression. I have taken Test cyp with Deca and i had to take Arimidex and Tomexifen and Clomid to control side affects and bring up by body's natural test. Arimidex etx are TOXIC and very dangerous. This was when i competed in summer. Test would shut down you body's natural test levels and lower sperm production and considering you depressed i would AVOID it at all costs. Your bodys estrogen would increase and when you get of it you would be suicidel if your are already depressed. HcG has adverse affects that would do exactly the apposite of what its intended to do if taken for more then 1 week and at high dosage. after my cycle i took 3 shots of hcg at 500iu E3D only and it was sufficient. Your really are a moron that give people who use meds sensibly a bad name
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Insum
post Jun 16, 2010, 09:39 AM
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AngelDust, you must have some problem with reality. Get a grip.

I am on doctor supervised TRT and HRT. I am not talking about doing F**KING steroid cycles you douchebag. Get a life...loser... I have a medical condition where I was not producing enough testosterone and my adrenals were depleted. I am now getting treated for this. It's called TRT... douchebag.... Learn a few things before you spew garbage on the net... You are the moron here.
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shady
post Jun 25, 2010, 02:28 PM
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QUOTE(Insum @ Jun 16, 2010, 09:39 AM) *

AngelDust, you must have some problem with reality. Get a grip.

I am on doctor supervised TRT and HRT. I am not talking about doing F**KING steroid cycles you douchebag. Get a life...loser... I have a medical condition where I was not producing enough testosterone and my adrenals were depleted. I am now getting treated for this. It's called TRT... douchebag.... Learn a few things before you spew garbage on the net... You are the moron here.


You could try monotherapy with HCG initially, but I foresee a few problems with this. First, as with any exogenous hormone usage you will suppress the endogenous HPT axis. This is fine if you intend to stay on the HCG for life, but if not it is only a temporary fix. Furthermore, when you use HCG as monotherapy you not only stimulate the leydig cells to produce testosterone and estrogen via the aromatase enzyme, but also stimulate the p450 side chain cleavage enzyme in the adrenal gland. This would benefit your borderline low DHEA levels but you may run in to problems controlling P4 and E2 levels.

If you are truly looking at TRT as a long term endeavor a schedule similar to the following would be superior, cheaper, and more stable.

Day 1 - Test cypionate or enthanate doesn't matter, I'd favor these over androgel because they are much cheaper and not a pain in the ass to apply, dosage between 75mg and 200mg IM
Day 6 - 250-500IU HCG SubQ
Day 7 - 250-500IU HCG SubQ
Repeat Day 1

based on blood levels you may need to add arimidex to control E2 levels. Most likely .25mg biweekly or EOD
If you can maintain E2 levels without arimidex it would be best to go without as Arimidex will be the most expensive part of this protocol.

The HCG is placed on day 6 and 7 as this is when serum levels of T will begin to decrease. A small dose of HCG will stabilize T levels, prevent testicular atrophy, maintain intratesticular T levels which is imperative for spermatogenesis, and stimulate the p450 SCC enzyme which will support the rest of your hormonal milieu ie. DHEA.

The poster above mentioned resistance to HCG if taken for more than a week, but the studies showing this are using thousands of IU's. You will not develop resistance with this protocol.

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Insum
post Jun 25, 2010, 02:54 PM
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Thanks for the input.

I originally tried hcg monotherapy. Then I moved to smaller dose of hcg + shots, but could not get DHT high enough. Now my Dr has me on 20% plo gel, hcg and arimidex, DHT is much higher now, feeling better but my E2 is too high at times...this is the worst part of TRT I am learning, tweaking E2 and keeping it at a good level... it always seems to change, up n down like a rollercoaster, which is how TRT is the first couple years I hear until everything is tweaked. I am definately on TRT for life though now. Also on hydrocortisone and thyroid meds but not much.
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shady
post Jun 25, 2010, 06:32 PM
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QUOTE(Insum @ Jun 25, 2010, 02:54 PM) *

Thanks for the input.

I originally tried hcg monotherapy. Then I moved to smaller dose of hcg + shots, but could not get DHT high enough. Now my Dr has me on 20% plo gel, hcg and arimidex, DHT is much higher now, feeling better but my E2 is too high at times...this is the worst part of TRT I am learning, tweaking E2 and keeping it at a good level... it always seems to change, up n down like a rollercoaster, which is how TRT is the first couple years I hear until everything is tweaked. I am definately on TRT for life though now. Also on hydrocortisone and thyroid meds but not much.


what dose HCG and how often? also how much arimidex are you taking?

the transdermal route will give higher DHT levels due to the 5-AR type 1 enzyme found in the skin. interesting that DHT was low despite IM Test.

thanks
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Insum
post Jun 25, 2010, 06:46 PM
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My doc has me on a little too much of everything right now. In the process of switching to a better doctor who knows his stuff.

I use an anti-aging clinic in Florida (although, I am 32 yrs old). They have me on 20% gel, 1ml everyday. 500iu hcg twice per week, and I am taking .5mg arimidex everyday or sometimes every other day.. The gel at this amount is the equivalent to 200mg test-cyp per week... on the high end..

My total test and free test is a bit high, as is DHT. DHT is about triple the upper limit, total test is about 1500 at peak. I feel good, but main issue is E2 with this amount. My new doc is going to lower me to 10% gel (switching from PLO gel to androgel which is much better at keeping levels stable... PLO gel jacks levels up too much, causing too much E2 conversion). Lowering HCG down a bit as well and switching dose to EOD. HCG has about a 48 hr half-life. I really hate the fluctuating libido and wood on TRT so far. Hard to get the E2 nailed in the right spot. Overall feeling much more assertive, positive, smoother personality, more in control, less anxiety as compared to before TRT. The higher DHT feels great. Some people have issues with DHT via IM route due to lack of 5-AR enzymes. Skin is full of them though so conversion is much higher. I failed to mention though, that I purposely cause an extra boost in DHT by applying a small amount of the gel to my nuts... This is known to cause a spike in DHT. I have a full head of hair and prostate is perfect, so no issues with this... but the new doc is aiming for more of a sustainable homeostasis approach. Regardless of what people do, the body always has a negative feedback loop, so I just want to aim for my perfect zone.

One thing I find strange, is that even though I've been on TRT for almost 2 years, my FSH is still up, around 5 right now. My urologist just did some labs, and my LH was 2 and FSH was 5. Really strange since I figured I would be completely shutdown. Then again, the hcg is likely throwing this test off. No idea why he would test LH while I am on hcg (which is basically an LH signal). FSH though had nothing throwing it off..figured it would be around 0. Guess the nuts are still in action.
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maracatu
post Oct 19, 2010, 05:35 AM
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Insum, i think we share the same hormonal profile pre-TRT (i begin TRT in May/2010 with bi-weekly 250mg Testosterone enanthate injections):
Low normal Total Testosterone, Low free testosterone, high normal Estradiol, Low DHT (i think related to finasteride use in the past), high normal FSH (i have a low sperm count) and low SHBG.
I feel better mood and energy on TRT but i cannot regain my libido back. Even erections are far better, morning erentions returning (altough short lived) but no libido. I think this is a common pattern for people wih low SHBG. Even with variable doses of arimidex i cannot achieve libido. I will now try another aproach with selegiline. I am thinking about a low dose 1,25mg daily. How do you feel ?
I would like to talk with other people who share the same hormonal profile and symptons.

Thanks for your attention and congratulations the owners of this forum
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Insum
post Dec 30, 2013, 09:11 PM
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QUOTE(maracatu @ Oct 19, 2010, 09:35 AM) *

Insum, i think we share the same hormonal profile pre-TRT (i begin TRT in May/2010 with bi-weekly 250mg Testosterone enanthate injections):
Low normal Total Testosterone, Low free testosterone, high normal Estradiol, Low DHT (i think related to finasteride use in the past), high normal FSH (i have a low sperm count) and low SHBG.
I feel better mood and energy on TRT but i cannot regain my libido back. Even erections are far better, morning erentions returning (altough short lived) but no libido. I think this is a common pattern for people wih low SHBG. Even with variable doses of arimidex i cannot achieve libido. I will now try another aproach with selegiline. I am thinking about a low dose 1,25mg daily. How do you feel ?
I would like to talk with other people who share the same hormonal profile and symptons.

Thanks for your attention and congratulations the owners of this forum


Low libido is from low DHT, or possibly you need to address estrogen (E2) if your DHT is OK. Selegeline didn't help much with libido tbh. I don't take it anymore. Stablon worked out great for me though (for mood), as well as increasing my DHT levels (with an ancillary to TRT). When TRT doesn't raise DHT enough, DHT cream or similar can be used (injectable DHT or something like proviron or masteron).

Sorry for the late reply
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rachelphilr
post Nov 03, 2014, 07:49 PM
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Stablon alongside Deprenyl - experiences/suggestions?
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