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> Death/Loss and Enlightenment's Response
Zyou
post May 26, 2017, 04:35 PM
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I understand why this question comes up, and it is not an easy answer to find, but it is an answer we all have a tendency to look for.

Obviously someone without attachment has an easier time leaving this world.

But nothingness is never the goal; it is badly translated, but an optimistic explanation of origin.

Nothingness would be better translated from east-to-west theosophy as relativity.

Without an understanding in the errors of translation or vastly philosophic schools of thought, it would seem like a nutcase is prescribing the riddle of an existential paradox. But with a thorough enough waste of time in philosophical logic, it shows itself as really a message of freedom and happiness unbounded by the physical circumstance.

From the standpoint of a guru, the guru may find it ridiculous, charming, or funny, that a person may forget that they themselves are already one and the same with the "oneness of god." And may see their whole life as just a poetic role played out by the divine.

But, in my view, the lack of problems coinciding with the nonexistence of problems, does not make you, "no one" and "every thing." And that is in no way how to get the message across in relative terms, nor a religious personal quest in life.

While joy comes alongside simply being, as well as a lack of circumstance, there is also a tendency to express that joy, which in the physical circumstance can be taken away from us.

While it is said by the so-called sage that this life with its problems, is nothing more than a drama; that joy inherent in us, leads towards the tendencies which fulfill the criteria for asking about death and loss.

It is already existing tendency. Which is proof that you are not "no one." Nor should you strive to be. Because you are not who you were in the past, and will not ever be the same in the future, does that mean you were never born, and were never here? In a sense, sure....but that is talking about the ego, and the problems that arise through "ego." Individual tendencies exist. And they develop. Which is why there is a need of this question. And why the bad translation or transference of this information from individual to individual has started a new wave of new age religion ><

The western view is two extremes. Of an all-pervading eye judging you, or of your existence being mere chance, and a fluke to nature. The eastern view is one of being an integral piece of the universe. By the nature of what you are, during non-existence, as the solution to all worldly problems. Live a life of have not, want not, without any attachments, and you will be free. But this is a discipline as well, and it ignores the reasoning for you having these specific problems in life as well in the first place. While it may encompass an entire correct lifestyle, it is just as much a doctrine as anything else. But there is something to be gained from this insight; and that is not to live a life of perfect monkhood. It is that your problems came about for a reason, voluntarily. And therefore they are productive problem, chosen to be lived out by you. To remember this is productive, But to live by this is to ignore the tendency which gave birth to it.

Key misunderstood points in eastern thought:
Ego- what we know about the world is a character being played, and not the true experience.
Divine drama- a non-separateness with the divine.
Nothing as a great thing- the source of all fear as having the nature of being a positive experience.

Edit- I would delete this if I knew how XD
It almost feels like it is written in a vendetta against spiritual teachers from the perspective of someone who took the meaning overly literal. Maybe a thorough understanding is what is required to put any teaching to actual use, and it is probably outside of the point to try and explain it to someone XD But I had fun thinking about it.
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Joesus
post May 29, 2017, 07:08 AM
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QUOTE(Zyou @ May 27, 2017, 12:35 AM) *

I understand why this question comes up, and it is not an easy answer to find, but it is an answer we all have a tendency to look for.

Some do but most don't think about it at all until death comes.
QUOTE(Zyou @ May 27, 2017, 12:35 AM) *

Obviously someone without attachment has an easier time leaving this world.
If it were that obvious, more people would become enlightened.
QUOTE(Zyou @ May 27, 2017, 12:35 AM) *

But nothingness is never the goal; it is badly translated, but an optimistic explanation of origin.
Usually by someone who knows nothing of origin
QUOTE(Zyou @ May 27, 2017, 12:35 AM) *

Nothingness would be better translated from east-to-west theosophy as relativity.
There are thousands of books that take words towards meanings but resist the temptation to define the absolute within relative boundaries. These books are labelled as "Scripture" words of the enlightened. Only problem is that the unenlightened can't seem to fit the ocean of knowledge and experience into their relative glass of thought and belief.
QUOTE(Zyou @ May 27, 2017, 12:35 AM) *

Without an understanding in the errors of translation or vastly philosophic schools of thought, it would seem like a nutcase is prescribing the riddle of an existential paradox. But with a thorough enough waste of time in philosophical logic, it shows itself as really a message of freedom and happiness unbounded by the physical circumstance.
Without direct experience there is no logic, philosophical or scientific that can lead you to liberation.
QUOTE(Zyou @ May 27, 2017, 12:35 AM) *

From the standpoint of a guru, the guru may find it ridiculous, charming, or funny, that a person may forget that they themselves are already one and the same with the "oneness of god." And may see their whole life as just a poetic role played out by the divine.
Not ridiculous that they forgot, but rather ridiculous that they refuse to look towards it and abandon any reason based on illusions and or egoic programming.
QUOTE(Zyou @ May 27, 2017, 12:35 AM) *

But, in my view, the lack of problems coinciding with the nonexistence of problems, does not make you, "no one" and "every thing." And that is in no way how to get the message across in relative terms, nor a religious personal quest in life.
You can't lead a horse to water and make him/her drink if he/she is not thirsty. Generally speaking the knowers tend to avoid those who don't know, when they will fight you for their reason. Why would anyone want to argue with someone who does not want to change or learn something different about reality.

Some say ignorance is bliss, but really its just ignorance. People tend to not look where they have no idea that there is something to look at. Being that they are addicted to the sensory world they will not leave the thing they are addicted to. Just look at how many people who are addicted to cigarettes that don't try to quit even when they are told it is bad for them. They enjoy their "coffin nails" and will fight to keep them.
QUOTE(Zyou @ May 27, 2017, 12:35 AM) *

While joy comes alongside simply being, as well as a lack of circumstance, there is also a tendency to express that joy, which in the physical circumstance can be taken away from us.

IF.. a person were to experience true "Joy" (a relative name for a condition where the absolute is experienced within all relative emotions such as happiness, sadness etc. etc.) It/that could never be taken from them. What might be taken from them, is any illusion that they could transfer/convince to another that it was real. The ego depends on validation for what it identifies with. When the ego becomes subservient to Consciousness rather than the cowherd to the bovine nature of our needs, assumptions, fears and addictions, there is liberation from fear of loss or even the illusion of loss.
QUOTE(Zyou @ May 27, 2017, 12:35 AM) *

While it is said by the so-called sage that this life with its problems, is nothing more than a drama; that joy inherent in us, leads towards the tendencies which fulfill the criteria for asking about death and loss.

It calls to the heart, it does not lead nor take free will. When the student is ready, the Teacher appears. Never the other way around.
QUOTE(Zyou @ May 27, 2017, 12:35 AM) *

It is already existing tendency. Which is proof that you are not "no one." Nor should you strive to be. Because you are not who you were in the past, and will not ever be the same in the future, does that mean you were never born, and were never here? In a sense, sure....but that is talking about the ego, and the problems that arise through "ego." Individual tendencies exist. And they develop. Which is why there is a need of this question. And why the bad translation or transference of this information from individual to individual has started a new wave of new age religion ><
Such supposition would create psychosis, which is what religion is. Projection of what one assumes is real based on no thing/nothing, or No experience.

A boy dreams of being a man, and looks at his role models assuming what he will be will be something like what he sees. Without any experience, what he sees is only imagination. Imagine if he actually saw the fear and illusions of the walking dead. Would he continue to look at his idols or begin to search for another role model?

Mt 8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

Lk 9:60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.

QUOTE(Zyou @ May 27, 2017, 12:35 AM) *

The western view is two extremes. Of an all-pervading eye judging you, or of your existence being mere chance, and a fluke to nature. The eastern view is one of being an integral piece of the universe. By the nature of what you are, during non-existence, as the solution to all worldly problems. Live a life of have not, want not, without any attachments, and you will be free. But this is a discipline as well, and it ignores the reasoning for you having these specific problems in life as well in the first place. While it may encompass an entire correct lifestyle, it is just as much a doctrine as anything else. But there is something to be gained from this insight; and that is not to live a life of perfect monkhood. It is that your problems came about for a reason, voluntarily. And therefore they are productive problem, chosen to be lived out by you. To remember this is productive, But to live by this is to ignore the tendency which gave birth to it.

Why would anyone seek to define truth from any translation rather than a direct experience?

One person describes the biblical "Beast" as the idol, or the "Authority" given to any idea that is not directly known and experienced. We are trained to listen to others and to accept blindly what is given to us as the truth. We are filled with words and ideas by our educational system. The books, or nowadays the electronic media which transcribes the authorities decree in truth is shown to us by those who have stripped down all non essential data to give us a program which suits a global lifestyle of dependence on the global system which herds humanity like cows thru the stockyards of corporate farms. It used to be that the Church dictated God's will, but now corporate spooks define spirituality thru relative terms that suit their marketing strategies to sell you what they control. These people fill the world with the same crap you are assuming is the western translation of Eastern spiritual sciences and philosophy.
Then like you, these folks who buy into the corporate version of pseudo spirituality again try to superimpose the idea of bliss onto whatever they have been told is real, the same way the Christians have tried to swallow God as it was dictated to them by the church. The only upside about this is that a person who lives enough lifetimes being swindled by their ego eventually wakes up at some point. Being that time is an illusion, the idea of being held back a grade in school is only an idea that eventually vanishes when you wake up. Until then suffering and even joy is simply a dream that one wakes from, like the dreams you have at night.



QUOTE(Zyou @ May 27, 2017, 12:35 AM) *

Key misunderstood points in eastern thought:
Ego- what we know about the world is a character being played, and not the true experience.
Divine drama- a non-separateness with the divine.
Nothing as a great thing- the source of all fear as having the nature of being a positive experience.

Ego is created by the divine. Drama whether egoic or divine is still drama. And last but not least, there is no such thing as nothing.
QUOTE(Zyou @ May 27, 2017, 12:35 AM) *

Edit- I would delete this if I knew how XD
It almost feels like it is written in a vendetta against spiritual teachers from the perspective of someone who took the meaning overly literal. Maybe a thorough understanding is what is required to put any teaching to actual use, and it is probably outside of the point to try and explain it to someone XD But I had fun thinking about it.

IT (this post) appears as another intellectual stab at a collection of thoughts. Yer still circling them, and have yet to find where they come from (all thought arises from the same place. How thought is perceived is based on where conscious awareness is situated. It either sits at the source, [the vague reference to nothing you mentioned] or behind the filters and barriers of identity, past impressions and belief).







BTW If you really want to delete it (your post) then if you are logged in as a member you can simply go to the bottom of the page or post and click on the "delete" button. rolleyes.gif
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