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> The Problems of Suffering and Death
reich42
post Jul 28, 2010, 08:05 AM
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Almost everyone agrees that suffering is something to fear and is a huge problem. Death on the other hand has multiple viewpoints. If it is the end of life permanently, then there is nothing to fear, but should it still be considered a problem? Yes of course the universe may last forever, and so also the cycle of life and death. So while death is necessary for new life to continue to exist, and death is the end of suffering then we have no problems right? Wrong. Death is the opposite of anything good. No matter how far we get as individuals or a species, death is there to stop us in our progress and evolution. Once you are dead, you experience nothing and are back to where you started. The sensory has parted. New life will arise but then if life is infinite then so is suffering. Will suffering and death be infinite? Isn't the goal of humanity to end suffering? Or is that completely impossible? Of course I am using the scientific reasoning, not the religious wishful thinking. There are two polar opposite perspectives and one in between on this issue of suffering and death. The middle one is that we live our lives to the best, enjoy them while we can and then just die. Not too depressing or happy, right? The worst perspective would be all the suffering of all time, wars, diseases, pain, tortures, selfless sacrifice for other people (Jesus as an example) would never reach a turning point, therefore it was all for nothing. There would be no healing, justice, or some kind of eternal happy consciousness, just death. What a disappointment for humanity if that was the case. The other end of the ladder is spirituality. There is a purpose. There is an infinite immortality, all is one, universal conciousness, infinite happiness etc. Even if this is wishful, not scientific thinking, anyone can clearly see the difference between the Richard Dawkins atheist evolution model and the Christian heaven eternal model. While I believe in science and not religion, I still think there may be a way to fix the problems of suffering and death. But nobody has come up with any evidence that this is even possible. Our only hope relies on human evolution, scientific breakthroughs, and intelligence. There is no way to know if the future holds any hope at all.
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GodConsciousness
post Jul 28, 2010, 08:35 AM
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Science and technologically based medicine has helped to alleviate suffering and extend our lifespans dramatically. We are likely to witness many more advances in the future. This matter has been discussed elsewhere on the fora with a variety of thoughts proposed. The evolution of life may inherently need death to continue its own life. Whether we get to consciously participate in the universe's evolution beyond our personal lives on Earth remains a matter of great debate. I personally hope we do survive the death of our bodies and integrate into an infinite consciousness, but it may be wishful thinking in the end.
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reich42
post Jul 28, 2010, 08:53 AM
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QUOTE(GodConsciousness @ Jul 28, 2010, 08:35 AM) *

Science and technologically based medicine has helped to alleviate suffering and extend our lifespans dramatically. We are likely to witness many more advances in the future. This matter has been discussed elsewhere on the fora with a variety of thoughts proposed. The evolution of life may inherently need death to continue its own life. Whether we get to consciously participate in the universe's evolution beyond our personal lives on Earth remains a matter of great debate. I personally hope we do survive the death of our bodies and integrate into an infinite consciousness, but it may be wishful thinking in the end.


Longer lifespans have been achieved, this is true. But suffering hasn't even been scratched upon. Suffering will continue as long as humans are born, even if there were no humans left, evolution would start again and suffering would arise from life. But even with all of our science and technology we cannot prevent suffering. Even if we managed to fix poverty, famine, disease, war, a comet comes out of the great beyond and wipes this little rotating spec of a rock clean. As if to say, hey, it doesn't really matter what happens. When an earthquake kills 200,000 I find it hard to find any meaning in anything really. Nature can be seen as a friend or an enemy. Those are just words we imagined, just like state lines. Nature just is what it is. Nature versus Humanity, what will win? Well it looks like Nature has always been the winner and will exist forever. Humanity may exist forever, but we have yet to truly change the way things are. In other words overcoming nature. That seems impossible, but is it?
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GodConsciousness
post Jul 28, 2010, 08:55 AM
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QUOTE(reich42 @ Jul 28, 2010, 12:53 PM) *

QUOTE(GodConsciousness @ Jul 28, 2010, 08:35 AM) *

Science and technologically based medicine has helped to alleviate suffering and extend our lifespans dramatically. We are likely to witness many more advances in the future. This matter has been discussed elsewhere on the fora with a variety of thoughts proposed. The evolution of life may inherently need death to continue its own life. Whether we get to consciously participate in the universe's evolution beyond our personal lives on Earth remains a matter of great debate. I personally hope we do survive the death of our bodies and integrate into an infinite consciousness, but it may be wishful thinking in the end.


Longer lifespans have been achieved, this is true. But suffering hasn't even been scratched upon. Suffering will continue as long as humans are born, even if there were no humans left, evolution would start again and suffering would arise from life. But even with all of our science and technology we cannot prevent suffering. Even if we managed to fix poverty, famine, disease, war, a comet comes out of the great beyond and wipes this little rotating spec of a rock clean. As if to say, hey, it doesn't really matter what happens. When an earthquake kills 200,000 I find it hard to find any meaning in anything really. Nature versus Humanity, what will win? Well it looks like Nature has always been the winner and will exist forever. Humanity may exist forever, but we have yet to truly change the way things are.


We are fragile beings.
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post Jul 28, 2010, 06:28 PM
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QUOTE(reich42 @ Jul 28, 2010, 08:05 AM) *

I still think there may be a way to fix the problems of suffering and death. But nobody has come up with any evidence that this is even possible. Our only hope relies on human evolution, scientific breakthroughs, and intelligence. There is no way to know if the future holds any hope at all.

It is the nature of all known forms of life to suffer. This struggle between good an evil has always been the case. We should not take it for granted, though, as it has helped us carry this far. It has a meaning that most of us refuse to confront, and learn from it, therefore.
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moises12
post Jul 30, 2010, 06:24 AM
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So we actually addressed to God that we are in need and thank him when we are not in pain and suffering, think about it. And of course, to try us.
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