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> Introduction to the Singularity
Shawn
post Feb 20, 2003, 11:23 AM
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hello everyone,

at the request of some, I've created this board with the intention of informing others and initiating spirited discussion about the possibility and ramifications of an impending Singularity. Â So, just what exactly is the Singularity? Well, hopefully the posts in this thread will go some way in defining what the Singularity is and introducing the subject to newcomers.

take care,
Shawn
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Shawn
post Feb 20, 2003, 11:25 AM
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The Singularity is a common matter of discussion in transhumanist circles. There is no clear definition, but usually the Singularity is meant as a future time when societal, scientific and economic change is so fast we cannot even imagine what will happen from our present perspective, and when humanity will become posthumanity. Another definition of Singularity denotes the singular time when technological development will be at its fastest. Of course, there are some who think the whole idea is just technocalyptic dreaming.
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Theresa
post May 15, 2003, 04:23 AM
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A Song for the Changing Time

Who can understand
The ancient ones?

Who could understand
The ancient ones?

Who can speak
With the ancient ones?

Who could speak
With the ancient ones?

The flute player
Was the messenger
Between the worlds.

I used to hear
The people singing.

Even modern "Indians"
Couldn't understand
Why they hear the sounds
Of people singing.

Songs
Ancient songs,
Coming through the night,
Especially if they lived
Around me for very long.

Nervous people!

Songs of sadness,
Songs of joy,
Songs of life,
and death.

Songs traveling
through the Land and air.

Now I hear the flute player,
And I don't understand
his words.

Words of musical notes
Whisling through
My inner mind.

What does it mean
To walk your sacred land
And see it filled
With cement?

Holy places
Filled with cement?

What does it mean
When a young/old man
Seemingly familiar,
Yet,
A stranger
Runs up to you,
he shows you an object -
And introduces you
To yourself.

You meet an old man
You hope he is wise
He backs away
In recognition
And
In fear.
Repeating,
Endlessly repeating,
Oh!
No!
I've been a good Christian
For thirty nine years!

What does it mean
To lose your children?

You have lost your future.

What does it mean
To have your past erased?
And,
To lose your children?

Mere existance.

What does mere existance mean?

You don't count anymore.

Coyote and Raven
Are drunk!
They are in mourning.
Their way of life is dying.

"I am a traditionalist."
They tell everyone they meet.
They are drunk with pain.
Death is grasping at their cloaks.

Coyote and Raven
Are drunk
they are in mourning.

What does it mean
when you know
You've given a ride
To Coyote and Raven?

While traveling
Nice fat Raven says;
"My cornfields need rain.
We haven't had any rain
In such a long time.

Dance for me.

If it doesn't rain soon -
My cornfields are gonna die!"

And
Coyote,
He says; "Shut up!"
Coyote gets confused
He shakes his head,
He spouts nonsense.

And then,
Shaking his head
With a shiver, he says:
"I wish I could talk sense to you!

He climbs out of the car
And he stands there
Just outside my door,
My window is only partially ajar.

He asks me where I live.
He asks me for my address,
I say I haven't any
And ask him for his.
And then he knows -
Thay I know him.

I shake his hand and say
"Have a good heart.
We bless you."

He slowly backed away
To sit under a tree
With only Raven
For company.

We,
The people of the North
Have a prophecy that says;
"When all the earth smells like roses,
It is the changing time!"

And
Here I am.
Smelling of roses.
My Mother smells roses,
My Husband smells roses,
My children smell roses,
Whenever they're around me.

I smell roses now too.

I used to smell sage
And frankincense.

I wish it were roses,
Real roses,
Wild roses,
Bending in the wind.

~Theresa~
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Karl
post Jan 24, 2004, 07:19 PM
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What is the Singularity? Different people mean different things by this term. For me, the Singularity refers to the point of time in the future when human consciousness, at both the personal and species level, experiences an abrupt transition, a phase transition of sorts, into a state of transcendence that is conceptually impossible for us to imagine "what it's like" with our current limited cognitive abilities.

My usage of the term "Singularity" is an analogy to the well-known singularity in physics, the black hole, where you cannot see beyond the event horizon because light cannot escape from it. In a similar manner, we cannot see (or imagine) what's beyond the consciousness Singularity because it's beyond our cognitive (or imaginative) capabilities.

Imagine, if you will, what a monkey would experience if suddenly it's consciousness became like that of a human. Before the transition, the monkey would be incapable of imagining what it's like to be human simply because it's beyond it's cognitive capabilities. In the same way, I believe our species will undergo such transitions in our consciousness of such magnitude that we cannot even begin to imagine what these new states of consciousness are like.

At the Singularity, history as we know it, will cease. The universe, as we experience it now, will cease. Consider the most transcendent and mystical states of consciousness that have yet been experienced by mankind: these will pale in comparison with what's to come! This is the Singularity. And there won't be just one Singularity, but many, as consciousness overcomes and transcends itself, over and over again.

Our consciousness will be expanded beyond the confines of an egocentric sense of self to include transpersonal experiences and transcendent self-identity. This new existence will be both a form of collective consciousness and a form of expanded individual consciousness. Though sounding like a contradiction, realize that these two descriptions of transcendent consciousness are really two sides of the same coin. The Singularity is so far beyond our experience and knowledge today that we cannot even begin to comprehend it, unless we ourselves experience transcendent states of consciousness.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


This I find interesting in a Max Steel Extreme Way. Is this Singularity that you speake of going to happen soon? How soon would you say?

I could easily see this happening soon. As time ends not; our progression in science and technology is increasing fast and will not stop until we find what we as human beings cannot help but search for in one way, expression, or another; ourselves. This drive of progression, powered by both fear for survival and, curiosity, will no doubt lead us to this Singularity. This progression is, in fact, to be expected, for we humans are unique in that we are the most advanced product of evolution,that we know of, able to conceptualize far greater things in life than any other creature on earth. What was considered imposible 50 years ago is now common place, we as humans seem to have no boundaries to what we may accomplish, other than those we create. The first creature to be able to choose it's own limitations, i'm more than impressed to be certain.

By what means do you think we will meet the end of this Singularity? Neuroscience? If it's not to much trouble, could you be specific as to how you think we will accomplish this goal as a species? Or is it simply beyond explanation for the moment because of time and change? Do you think that this transition will happen semotaniously throughout diferent areas on earth? Or is this Singularity going to take place because of scientific means and therefor not happen for everyone at the same time? Are you talking about evolution or science? Of corse science is a part of evolution but could you specify on this when you have the time? I would apreciate it very much.
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Karl
post Jan 24, 2004, 07:30 PM
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Theresa, I enjoyed that very much, that I did. Thank you for sharing it with me. Do you have any more pieces on this site?
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Shawn
post Jan 25, 2004, 07:01 AM
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hello Karl,

you have brought up some excellent questions. Let me try my hand at some answers.

The consciousness singularity will happen soon. I would estimate within the next couple of decades, but this is so unpredictable... it could be within the next couple of years, it could be within the next couple of centuries.... all that is known is that it inevitably will be (a few of us will make certain of this).

Neuroscience will provide the key that unlocks the door onto transcendent states of consciousness leading up to the singularity. Our brain is an instrument and our consciousness, as we experience it, is the music that it produces. By learning to play this instrument through the development of neuroscience, we will learn to create such melodies as we cannot currently comprehend or envision.

As to whether the consciousness singularity will be the product of science or evolution, well, I would say it's both, and more. It is the Universe more fully awakening to Itself. Human consciousness is currently but the Universe in a half-sedated, half-asleep state. But the Universe will soon awaken to Itself and realize the next level of consciousness.

I could speculate on how the consciousness singularity will be brought about. It will be a technological feat that will involve the application of neuroscience-derived principles to the manipulation of our human brains. Whether this application will be limited to one, a few, many, or all people, is anyones guess. Probably all that we need is for one individual to experience this consciousness singularity, and then all or many of the answers will be open to that individual, including how to realistically transform and expand other people's consciousness so that they too, will experience and be a part of this consciousness singularity.

This transition will not happen simultaneously across the globe. It will happen to one or a few individuals first, and then it will likely spread like wildfire across the globe to consume this world in its flames. At that point, mostly everyone will be awakened from the illusion that more than 99.9999% of the world is currently unknowingly trapped in, and we will all realize and directly experience truths that we cannot even begin to imagine now.


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guest
post Jan 25, 2004, 11:14 AM
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hey Karl, what does a Max Steel Extreme Way mean?
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Karl
post Jan 25, 2004, 11:46 AM
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Thank you, that explains it very clearly, or at least, as clearly as it is going to get for now. So basically the effect of the singularity on a few people spread, not only the "word" but, a bit something more, the actual experience, am I right?

Well then, I will wait for this singularity, wether or not I am alive when it happens. That will be the greatest turning point in history followed by many more, infinately so.
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Karl
post Jan 25, 2004, 11:54 AM
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Max Steel is a computer animated cartoon, when Max turnes into a secret agent spy guy he says," GOING TURBO" and, when he need to put in some super powers into the mix he says ," IT'S TIME TO DO THINGS THE MAX STEEL WAY". Max Steel Extrem is just something that sounds like he would say. As to what it means, it just means TOTALLY AWSOME EXTREME!
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Karl
post Feb 19, 2004, 05:27 PM
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do you think there will still be humans as we know them now after the sigularity takes place. I mean, will the human race die out like the neolithic cavemen?
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Joesus
post Feb 20, 2004, 10:23 AM
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The singularity already exists, it is the one God that resides in all of creation.

The newage movement shies away from the word God because of the religious connotations which have many negative emotional beliefs attached.
The One God is the one consciousness. It is part of us so there is no manipulation required only the choice to realize it.
The more we let go of the ideas that keep us separate from it the closer we get to realizing and experiencing it.

Many do in the subtleties of life. Most of us can tell and experience the feelings of the ones closest to us, their joy and their sadness resonates within us.
The subtle isness of the underlying reality that is the essence of all of creation is experienced by everyone but usually ignored due to the direction of thought the mind takes.
Our habits of thinking takes us outward through the gross senses, the only change required is to take the mind inward and to familiarize and stabilize the awareness.
This draws the mind naturally towards the source of everything and to the connection of all of creation.
Evolution is just the time that it takes to grow towards the inevitable goal that is the choice of the human mind, within the relative terms of thought. By this I mean that the mind in its attempts to define the goal of evolution always deludes itself with its best guess by continuing to drag the past along as truth and part of the goal.
Evolution in reality is the return to the source of all of creation.

Choice is what creates the action to create the goal. Action exists because we believe that action is required to make something happen. Action beyond the thought and the desire is ingrained into the minds belief system because we have disasociated ourselves from what is already present and true for all.

Given the idea that some neurotropic process is going to take place might give the illusion that some process is being created by some person or persons to draw humanity towards its true reality, but it is the reality of truth that draws the mind towards it in every moment.
The belief that we have to do something is part of the belief that it is outside of ourselves and part of the habit that keeps us turning away from it or denying that it is already here.
It is everpresent, like the air we breathe and take for granted.
Even the idea that a few will start the process and others follow is not a process of chemical stimulation or physical alteration but the awakening of truth. Like a tuning fork being struck, when the rest of the forks are in atonement, or at one ment, truth becomes realized.

Man has always experienced this Union with reality.
Throughout the history of this planet man has become enlightened and passed on the wisdom of the consciousness that is everpresent and all pervading, but the free will of man is something that is created within the one consciousness, it is this one consciousness that creates diversity or the idea of it.

When one reaches Self realization the world is known, it is simply the projection of the one consciousness. There is only one person in the room, it and all is you.
Knowing what to do then and how to live your life is beyond the normal process of thought and so we project our best guess into our future, or try again out of habit to return ourselves to the thoughts of the many.
Our fear of our individuality being obliterated always leads us to the ultimate idea of union in action and thought so that we can retain our individuality in action and form, so that we can keep our likes and dislikes.
We just want to do this and not be threatened or threaten others, we just want to find peace in the world.

The world changes when you change.

The human will always exist within creation because it can, because it always has. Time is an idea created by the will to experience the creation that is born of desire and belief.
Manifest reality is a product of desire. It is not so much dreamed of as realized within the reality of all things that can be or could be.
In other words no thing is really created from nothing or created from an unknown it is simply realized within the fabric of possibility, which is in itself complete and full of everything that could ever be conceived. This is the reality of the Consciousness that pervades the universe.
It is omnipresent and omnipotent.
We as a species think very small. We embibe our awareness with our limited thoughts of our greatness as a species and our ignorance of the universe.
We don't give much thought to the universe and the life that is in it, the intelligence that may be beyond our earthly thoughts and boundaries.
We think relative to human history and the projections of its relationship to the universe.
We are mutidimensional beings because we are of the one consciousness. Able to experience all realities and all at the same time or one at a time.
Expand your awareness and you can reach beyond any limit.
We in limited thinking believe that this present moment is a stepping stone to some other moment which is greater. The Ego will believe that the ultimate will come, but then what? Will that be a stepping stone to something greater?
To Self realize is not necessarily to move the manifest into a bigger picture or manipulate the physical reality into a more perfect plan. Consciousness which is perfect already created this plan. To the Neanderthal this moment in time would probably be inconceivable and to him as far out and expansive as the dream of the manifestation of the Singularity.

Dreams are of the mind, all manifest reality including Humans is of the One consciousness. They are not separate nor are they meant to think and act the same way.
They are not meant to be anything but the manifestation of conscious will.
That manifestation will change with the awareness and the awareness is not limited to any physical boundary. It is not locked within the mind. The mind is a receiver of the one consciousness, it is capable of experiencing anything but if it is filled with all kinds of beliefs in reality then its limitless abilities are limited only by the filters that are placed there in the beleifs that are accumulated from the past and our limited perceptions.
Any drug may bypass the internal programs for a moment but the mind will ultimately need to be purged of the subtle programs that anchor limited thought in place, in order for it to be free to do what it was designed to do.
To act as the connecting link to our unlimited Self.
There, once realized would you change your self or your human reality?
Maybe, maybe not.
Possibly the human form is the ultimate form to experience the diversity of the free will and the unlimited potential.
Consciousness of itself is still and without any physical boundaries. It creates a vehicle to experience and why not the human form, to experience the idea of evolution in whatever bizarre from it takes, and why not in many forms and on many worlds and in many universes?
Perhaps the human civilization will always be what it is because it never existed in the first place as anything other than an idea and the idea was the experience, and the past and future are but memories of those thoughts.
Now here you are and within your beliefs who are you and what are you?
Can you be changed by any external manipulation? You the consciousness that you are? Would any expereince really change you or would the experience just be the change due to the thoughts that you might entertain.

Think about it. Why would you limit yourself to some process of physical reality and limit yourself to being affected by what you have created in the first place.
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cckeiser
post Apr 22, 2004, 12:11 PM
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QUOTE (Joesus @ Feb 20, 10:23 AM)
The singularity already exists, it is the one God that resides in all of creation.


First Cause: The Singularity or God?
( Is there really any difference?)

If we list the attributes we ascribe to both, they really do look pretty much alike. Both are considered to be Infinite, unbound, eternal, omnipresent, and omnipotent. The only bone of contention may be over "Omniscient," but depending on how you perceive ‘All-Knowing' The Singularity may be entitled also.

Omnipresent is pretty much self-explanatory, as both God and The Singularity are the First Cause and therefore must be the only "Things" in existence. For anything at all to exist there must be a First Cause, and we are left with no recourse but to accept there is one or the other.
From what I can fathom The Singularity and God are one and the same, the only difference is how we perceive them.

I think we must also grant The Singularity to be Omnipotent also, since all energy and everything that exists must be part of The Singularity. No energy and no-thing can exist ‘in' The Singularity because by definition The Singularity is ‘Singular,' therefore it can be the only ‘Thing' and all energy and all matter must be part of The Singularity. All matter and all energy ‘are' The Singularity.
If we perceive God as First Cause, then all of Creation must issue from God. We would not be created ‘in' the likeness of God, but created ‘from' the likeness of God. So just as all matter and energy are The Singularity, all matter and energy must also ‘be' God.

The difference is when we come to Omniscience, but if all matter and energy ‘is' The Singularity, then all knowledge must also be part of The Singularity. The Singularity would therefore be omniscient because it contains all knowledge.
The bone of contention is not over omniscience, but over Sentience.

Science, Skeptics and most Atheist; and I use these terms very generally, would have us believe the Universe manifesting within The Singularity was just an accident that happened. There was not, and is not, any intellect as the driving force. The Singularity is there, and for no good reason at all, there was a disturbance in its ‘fabric' and all the matter and energy in our Universe was generated. After billions of years of even more accidents Life spontaneously evolved from inanimate matter. It then seems but a very short few million years for Consciousness and Awareness to evolve by yet more accidents of nature. As for a Spirit or Soul, well they cannot be measured, so they can not exist.
The only problem I have with this scenario is it lacks a ‘catalyst.' "Accidents just don't happen." For anything to happen at all, there must be a catalyst to initiate a change. Something must have caused the disturbance.


On the other extreme is the concept of an Omniscient and Sentient God. Religious dogma would have us believe an All-Knowing deity created the Universe and then created us to serve, worship and glorify his existence. Then, just to make the game more sporting, he threw in Free Will so we can have a choice to Serve, Worship, and Idolize him or not, but if we don't then we are condemned to Eternal Damnation! I have several problems with this.
The first is a Omniscient God would already know the outcome before the fact. Even with Free Will thrown into the mix the outcome would already be predestined because of pre-knowledge. If a God was already certain of the outcome, there would be no need for the gesture. Omniscience turns Creation into a Charade.
Another problem I have with being created only to worship and glorify God's existence is it demeans the concept of a Devine Creator and turns him into a being who seeks idolizing to assuage his own ego. Sorry, but that just does not fit the image I envision for a Devine Creator.
Besides, if we are created from God, and are a part of God, then it would be the same as God worshiping himself.

The argument is not on whether there is a Creator or not, but whether our God is a mindless Singularity or a Sentient Divinity?
The Devout perceive a Sentient Omni-God. The Mindless Singularity is the god of Choice for the Heathens.
Neither a mindless Singularity nor a Devine Creator quite fit the bill from my perspective. I believe both sit at the extreme ends, and the truth lies between them.

http://www.geocities.com/cckeiser/42d.htm


Of course we have the same problem with both ‘existing' at all since both are considered to be Infinite, with no beginning or ending, and thus cannot wholly exist as an "Is." Since an Infinity cannot have a beginning or end, an Infinity is never finished existing. It is forever in the process of potential existence, but can never actually get there.
So if we grant an Infinite existence to both The Singularity and to God, neither can actually wholly exist, but are continually evolving to a potential existence neither will ever wholly achieve.



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cckeiser
post Apr 22, 2004, 12:14 PM
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QUOTE (Shawn @ Feb 20, 11:25 AM)
The Singularity is a common matter of discussion in transhumanist circles. There is no clear definition, but usually the Singularity is meant as a future time when societal, scientific and economic change is so fast we cannot even imagine what will happen from our present perspective, and when humanity will become posthumanity. Another definition of Singularity denotes the singular time when technological development will be at its fastest. Of course, there are some who think the whole idea is just technocalyptic dreaming.

The Singularity already ‘exist.' We are The Singularity, but right now we are fragmented. From other philosophies and beliefs I have been reading the past few years 2012 is the year. Do a web search on 2012.

How to get from ‘We Exist' to The Singularity, and what We Exist tells us about The Singularity.
( And why The Singularity is the answer to both the Fundamental Question and First Cause.)
(BTW, the Fundamental Question is: "Why does ‘Something' exist and not ‘Nothing'?")

We Exist!
In order for anything to exist, it must exist in something. What do we exist in?
We can start by saying we exist on this planet, in this solar system, this galaxy, and in this Universe.
But what does The Universe exist in?
It doesn't really matter what your Religion or Belief is, sooner or latter you must arrive at the Last Container that contains everything else, but that is not itself contained in anything.
If the Last Container is not ‘contained,' it has no boundaries. No Boundaries means it has no beginning and no ending. Therefore, it must be Infinite, Unbound, and Eternal. If it is Infinite it must be a Singularity.
An Infinite Unbound and Eternal Singularity must then be the answer to First Cause, and because The Singularity is ‘Something' it answers the Fundamental Question why is there ‘Something' and not ‘Nothing'!
The reason is there has always been The Singularity, and there never was a time there was a absolute ‘Nothingness.' There is No-Thing in Nothing. We cannot get Something out of Nothing because there isn't anything in it to begin with.
If Nothingness had ever been the case, by its very unnature, Nothingness would always be the case.
I must point out the absence of e=mc^2 energy that makes up our Reality is not ‘Nothingness.' Quantum Physics tells us all our energy emanates from the UnReality of the Quantum Universe. So if all our e=mc^2 energy reverted back into quantum energy, there would be ‘No-Physical-Thing' in our Universe, but it would not be absolute Nothingness. There would still be The Singularity.
So what is The Singularity?
All we know about The Singularity is what is in it, but because it is a Singularity, no-thing can be "in" it, all things must be woven from it. So everything that exists must be a part of The Singularity. There cannot be anything that is not The Singularity, so Everything ‘is' The Singularity.
We Exist! We do not exist in The Singularity, we are a part of The Singularity. We are The Singularity.
Since we exist as The Singularity anything we can ascribe to ourselves must by default be an attribute of The Singularity.
The only thing we know for certain is we are conscious. Consciousness must then be an attribute of The Singularity.
This is where Occam's Razor comes into play.
If we do not try to complicate anything more than necessary, then We Exist and Consciousness as The Singularity is all that is necessary. Anything we attempt to add is only an unnecessary complication. The Singularity is our Consciousness.

C.C.Keiser
4/15/04





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cckeiser
post Apr 22, 2004, 12:16 PM
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I am removing my off-topic posts.
The 40Hz post does not belong in this topic.

My apologizes to the administrator.

Chuck
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post Apr 22, 2004, 01:06 PM
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QUOTE
quantum role in consciousness.

this is doubtful. CC, you've said you're interested in how the One gives rise to the many. Quantum explanations will not tell you. It comes down to interactions between neurons. There are over 100 billion neurons in the brain. The form and structure of consciousness will be determined by the structure of neural interactions. There is no need to postulate a quantum role.

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post Apr 22, 2004, 01:09 PM
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QUOTE
The resonance frequency of consciousness is around 40Hz.


This is not true. There is a wide spectrum of frequencies characterizing EEG and physiological recordings. Some studies have found correlations between attentional processes and the 40 Hz gamma frequency, but this a far cry from labeling it the "resonance frequency of consciousness". There is absolutely nothing special about 40 Hz. Even in the absense of 40 Hz brain activity, you can still have consciousness. Thus, it is not the resonance frequency of consciousness.
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post Apr 22, 2004, 01:13 PM
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QUOTE
Nancy Woolf at UCLA who,
among others, does consider quantum processes relevant to consciousness
noticed the work in its other context. Thanks again Nancy!


Nancy Woolf is a quack


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post Apr 22, 2004, 01:20 PM
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QUOTE
The demonstration of quantum coherence in active brain regions does not
prove that quantum effects are necessarily involved in consciousness, and in
fact the demonstrated quantum coherence involves nuclear spin couplings
which are induced by the magnet and excitatory pulses, and not expected to
be present in a normal physiological state, being essentially exogenous,
induced artifacts.


Precisely! The quantum coherence is an artifact induced by the strong external magnetic fields of the MRI, which are several orders of magnitude stronger than magnetic fields produced by the brain.

Thus, at best, quantum coherence is merely an artifact produced by strong external magnetic fields and has absolutely nothing to do with consciousness. If it had anything to do with consciousness, then you might expect people getting MRI scans to experience alterations in their consciousness, but this doesn't happen. Hence, quantum coherence is irrelevant for consciousness.

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post Apr 22, 2004, 01:24 PM
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even though Nancy Woolf is a quack, she has some pretty pictures on her website at http://www.bol.ucla.edu/~nwoolf/


user posted image

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post Apr 22, 2004, 01:25 PM
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the picture above shows cholinergic innervation of the mouse brain in sagittal view (anterior is left, dorsal is up)
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Robert the Bruce
post Apr 22, 2004, 01:56 PM
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Dear CCK

You might look into the University of Illinois study that worked with Hank Wesselmann and various mystics and psychic healers. The 40HZ brainwavelength seems most effective and Hank (through shamanic studies with his wife) was able to get there and stay there longer than any others. It is suggested that Indigo Children or some kind of genetic evolutionary leap may be involved.
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post Apr 22, 2004, 02:38 PM
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QUOTE (cckeiser @ Apr 22, 12:16 PM)
The CSF-containing ventricles are seen in the quantum coherence image


yeah, like the CSF-containing ventricles are known to be real important for consciousness. Give me a break.
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post Apr 22, 2004, 02:41 PM
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QUOTE (Robert the Bruce @ Apr 22, 01:56 PM)
You might look into the University of Illinois study that worked with Hank Wesselmann


Hank Wesselmann the bus driver? That's the only Hank Wesselmann I could find by searching online.

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post Apr 22, 2004, 02:48 PM
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Nevermind, I found the correct Hank Wesselmann: author of SPIRIT MEDICINE: A Guide to Healing in the Sacred Garden. Maybe he's a bus-driver in his spare time.

About 40 Hz, it's barking up the wrong tree. Yeah, you have some neuroscientists go gaga over 40 Hz and consciousness, but the connection is weak, and like I said before, you can have consciousness without 40 Hz. And also, simply correlating attentional processes or parts of consciousness with 40 Hz says nothing about the structure of the underlying neural activity giving rise to the 40 Hz or what's so special about it that it gives rise to some aspects of consciousness or attentional processes.

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post Apr 22, 2004, 02:50 PM
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sorry people, but consciousness and the structure of consciousness is more complicated than 40 Hz! That's a cop-out. That's a sissy-mans way out. Only the unimaginative and self-deluded opt for the 40 Hz solution.
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post Apr 22, 2004, 02:56 PM
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thanks for the links CC!
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Robert the Bruce
post Apr 22, 2004, 07:31 PM
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Hank Wesselman has a Ph. D. and much field experience in things which you will never understand or even attempt to understand because your ego is all caught up in yourself. He was part of the team that discovered Lucy in the Olduvai Gorge which would have been around the time you were born (or before).
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Robert the Bruce
post Apr 22, 2004, 08:58 PM
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They fear being themself - I can understand that - their self is not connected.
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post Apr 23, 2004, 05:07 AM
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QUOTE (cckeiser @ Apr 22, 07:57 PM)
I know there is a great sense of freedom by being anonymous and not being held accountable for your words or actions, but is that really being ethical?
What is it you fear that you must hide who you are?

Usually only people who enjoy engaging in personal attacks like to know the personal identity of a poster and will mask such desires under alternative rationalizations like "wanting posters to take accountability". But the meaning of a post should not bear any relation to the name of the poster. If we are all one and the same what purpose does it serve to obscure that with illusions of separateness and individuality?

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post Apr 23, 2004, 05:10 AM
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QUOTE (Robert the Bruce @ Apr 22, 07:31 PM)
Hank Wesselman has a Ph. D. and much field experience in things which you will never understand or even attempt to understand because your ego is all caught up in yourself.

sounds like you worship him. Maybe if you had a Ph.D., you wouldn't. Ever think about that?
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