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> The controversy is that Baba told that He will live up to 96 years, but the death is preponed by about ten years
dattaswami
post May 02, 2011, 07:57 AM
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The controversy is that Baba told that He will live up to 96 years, but the death is preponed by about ten years.

An astrologer told that Baba lived up to 96 years according to the theory of the cycle of 27 stars. So much strain is not necessary in this issue. God has full freedom to postpone or prepone the lifetime of any human being including the human incarnation. It is not like the one hour bell for a teacher in the classroom. The case of the divine preacher is different. Generally, we find the teacher spending leisurely the rest of the period if the topic is over since he cannot quit the class before time. He is bound by the rules of the institution. But, if the principal enters and speaks for sometime, there is no binding on the time. Whenever the principal finishes his speech, he can quit at anytime and the concerned teacher follows the rest of the period.

The human incarnation is the head of the creation. In fact, the life period of any human being can be preponed or postponed by God. If the human being is found to be useful, its life is extended. If the human being is found useless, its life is shortened and is thrown into the lives of birds and animals, which live only to eat and sleep. The extension and shortening of life period is mentioned in the ethical scripture also. It says that if you sleep after sunrise, your life is shortened. It also says that your life is extended if you serve the elders. Therefore, the life period is not a fixed item. Baba might have preponed the exit since He found that the humanity will not change really and might have been vexed with the changeless behavior of the human beings.

Another issue is that why He saluted the devotees with folded hands on the last occasion.


You can find a similar situation in the case of Jesus also. Jesus washed the feet of His disciples on the last occasion of His departure. Jesus explained the reason of His such act. Jesus wanted that the disciples should never become egoistic and should treat their disciples with respect always. The devotees are human beings and their devotees are also human beings. One human being should respect the other human being. The case of Baba is different. Baba is God and the devotees are human beings. Baba need not respect His devotees.

But, later on, some of His disciples may have again disciples and they may imitate Baba thinking themselves also as human incarnations. All these points stand as the basis for such acts of Jesus and Baba. Baba is giving the message that you should express gratefulness to anybody irrespective of the status. Baba is also giving the message that you should remain as devotee only with folded hands before God. You should never claim that you are the human incarnation with a blessing hand always, falling in the trap of the praise of your disciples.

Another issue is that Baba told that He will rise after three days from death of His body.



Even in the case of Jesus, such a statement was made and this shows the similarity between Baba and Jesus. Shirdi Sai Baba also rose after three days after death. This miracle is not necessary in the case of Baba, who arose a dead person, which shows that Baba is the controller of the life. When Baba can rise other dead persons, can’t He rise Himself? Both the miracles establish the same concept. The point is that whether Baba can do it or not. If it is established by one type of miracle that Baba can do it, another type of miracle establishing the same concept need not be done again. For a wise person, one miracle, which is an unimaginable event, is sufficient to understand that the unimaginable God exists in that body. Rama has not done any miracle except one i.e., converting the stone into a woman by the touch of His foot. Is this one miracle not sufficient to establish that Rama is God?

All the sages understood Rama as God because they are learned scholars. Rama performed this miracle in presence of the sage Vishwamitra and Vishwamitra propagated this miracle to other sages. Krishna performed many miracles. But there were many enemies for Krishna. Kauravas saw the top-most miracle, which was the cosmic vision, but still did not believe Krishna as God thinking that it is illusion of eye. For a human being, with the faculty of intelligence working, demonstration of one unimaginable event is sufficient. For human beings, burning with ego and jealousy, even if thousand miracles are demonstrated, all will be treated as magic or illusion of the eye.

Some people say that Baba was harmed by some of His followers.


Is this possible? Can a human being harm God? Assuming that somebody harmed Baba, it must be the will of Baba only. Jesus was crucified by some people and it was done by the will of God only. If there is any sin in the followers, God will take care of it by giving punishment in the appropriate time. Why should you worry about it? You follow all the messages of Baba and try to practice so that God will be pleased with you and you will be protected by the grace of Baba.

You are wasting your valuable time and energy in unnecessary things neglecting the essential aspects related to your future welfare. Jesus, while carrying on the cross told the weeping people that they should weep about themselves and their children. The reason is that after the momentary pain of crucifixion, Jesus will sit on the lap of God whereas the people will go to the permanent hell after this short happy life. You try to stand on the principles preached by Baba and you neither worry about Baba nor about others.

Whether others follow or not, you follow the principles preached by Baba. Everybody thinks that he or she need not follow these principles since others are not following. The entire society thinks like that only. The king asked for the donation of one tumbler of milk from each house. Everybody thought that one can pour one tumbler of water, which will be mixed in the milk poured by others. Finally, the whole drum was full of water only! Everybody should follow the principles preached by Baba not caring for others [following]. If you are interested in their welfare, you preach them also after personal follow-up. If there is no change, even the entire mass will be punished, which is going to be the future action of Kalki. Don’t think that since it is an issue of the mass, there will be excuse.
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Joesus
post May 02, 2011, 08:03 AM
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Sai Baba was a clown.
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dattaswami
post May 02, 2011, 05:26 PM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ May 02, 2011, 09:03 AM) *

Sai Baba was a clown.

Shri Baba is reincarnation of Shiridi Sai Baba, who was the incarnation of Lord Datta. Datta means the God given to humanity in human form. Shri Baba did several miracles to establish the unimaginable God. This time needs His mission to establish the existence of unimaginable power of God through miracles. In this time, science developed tremendously so that people thought that every thing is explicable by human logic and nothing beyond human logic exists. The foundation itself is cracked and all these miracles established that there is God, who can never be explained by science or human logic. Thus, Shri Baba constructed the strong foundation for spirituality on which any spiritual preacher can stand safely to preach spiritual knowledge.

If Shri Baba did not come, by this time, all the temples must have been converted into business complexes. He established the fundamental faith in God all over the world, which is the foundation for the world peace. He showed Universal spirituality in all His preaching. He rained ocean of knowledge and developed devotion through His sweet songs. He worked day and night to set right the Pravrutti, which is the basis for Nivrutti. The spiritual world must remember His name in the beginning of any spiritual effort. The ethical and spiritual values became alive due to Him only. Such divine personality is very rare.
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dattaswami
post May 02, 2011, 05:27 PM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ May 02, 2011, 09:03 AM) *

Sai Baba was a clown.

Baba told that if somebody criticizes Him as hair-basket Baba, He is not worried since it is truth. If somebody criticizes Him as ball-headed Baba, then also, He is not worried since it is a lie. Hence, in any case tension and reaction are meaningless since the criticism is either perfectly true or perfectly false. The criticism of atheists is perfectly true in the case of false human incarnations and perfectly false in the case of Baba. Every devotee of Baba must maintain such analysis and attitude in the life and the balanced and calm face of Baba in this situation is a practical demonstration of His message of Pravrutti already given to all the devotees. Baba will be the happiest if devotees practice the knowledge given in His speeches.
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Joesus
post May 03, 2011, 06:17 AM
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Sai Baba was a clown.
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Kairos
post May 09, 2011, 02:45 AM
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Nowadays everything is turned into a show, and everybody into a clown, Joesus
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Joesus
post May 09, 2011, 07:11 AM
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QUOTE(Kairos @ May 09, 2011, 10:45 AM) *

Nowadays everything is turned into a show, and everybody into a clown, Joesus

Some clowns do better than others.
Some leave a legacy that represents the image, and others help influence the direction of choice in human evolution.

Those who worship the image create religions and religious belief.
Those that are evolving due to the nature of the underlying absolute within the image, have no love for the image.

Some clowns help empower, others flaunt their own power. Time often speaks of the fruits of ones labor, but often the judges of reality are simple minded and quick to make a saint out of an image rather than perpetuate the God within the image.

The ones who ignore the images are those who are established in, or drawn to something greater, and often manifest the means to liberate themselves as well as those who are willing to seek more than an image and its flashy outer components.

No one gets enlightened by studying scripture from the level of ignorance, or by observing idols who spout words and dance about on a stage. One has to do the work to draw the attention to that which does not die or change rather than worship temporary experiences and definitions in relative idols of religious fame and fortune.
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dattaswami
post May 09, 2011, 06:11 PM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ May 03, 2011, 07:17 AM) *

Sai Baba was a clown.

Baba came down to change the present behavior of the human beings (Pravrutti). You should change yourself without worrying about others. If every individual thinks like this and changes, the entire society is transformed and Baba will be happy. Hereafter, you will not have any direct message from Baba. But, Baba said more than enough. Be truthful. Follow the justice. Maintain the peace of the world. Love every living being. These four points constitute the essence of the preaching of Baba. Once Baba told, “You need not come to this place to see Me. Remain in your house and try to practically implement at least one point of My message. Then only I will be happy with you”.

Let us follow His message. The corruption and violence are the two present dangerous diseases of the society, which are more dangerous than cancer and AIDS. By cancer and AIDS, the individual is destroyed. But by corruption and violence, the society will be destroyed. The system of deeds and fruits takes care of an individual. But, if the society is destroyed, God enters and tries to save it. If the society does not change, it will be totally destroyed by vexed God Himself in the form of Kalki. But, a few individual souls, who are transformed, will be protected by God in that time of total destruction of the society. You try to become one of such few blessed individuals. Your such trial will please Baba, who will help you to succeed in the effort. If the effort is absent, God will not interfere because He will be charged with partiality.

Baba Baba, the God covered in red sheath,
The soul of souls, lies in You only underneath
Your real tribute to Him will be, henceforth,
To avoid corruption and violence to go to north.

(The Gita says that the soul after death has two paths. One path will be to south, which is to the hell to be punished for the sins and the other path will be to north to live with happiness in association with angels).

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Joesus
post May 09, 2011, 08:30 PM
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QUOTE(dattaswami @ May 10, 2011, 02:11 AM) *

Baba said more than enough. Be truthful.

Baba was a clown,
QUOTE(dattaswami @ May 10, 2011, 02:11 AM) *
Follow the justice.

Justice is being able to speak truthfully. Baba was a clown..truthful..just..Life is great!
QUOTE(dattaswami @ May 10, 2011, 02:11 AM) *
Maintain the peace of the world.

The peace of the world is absolute and it supports those who are truthful. Can you say clown wink.gif ....?
QUOTE(dattaswami @ May 10, 2011, 02:11 AM) *
Love every living being.

I love clowns. Who doesn't love a clown?

QUOTE(dattaswami @ May 10, 2011, 02:11 AM) *
These four points constitute the essence of the preaching of Baba. Once Baba told, “You need not come to this place to see Me. Remain in your house and try to practically implement at least one point of My message. Then only I will be happy with you”.
Baba must be ecstatic with me... Oh wait..he's dead. Then he must have been ecstatic while having a heart attack, and a stroke, and then while on life support, until the moment when he died. Maybe he's still ecstatic in death but I hardly feel he is concerned with anyone at this stage of his being. He must be swimming in vibhuti... smile.gif

QUOTE(dattaswami @ May 10, 2011, 02:11 AM) *


(The Gita says that the soul after death has two paths. One path will be to south, which is to the hell to be punished for the sins and the other path will be to north to live with happiness in association with angels).

The Bible also speaks of hell but it describes it as the illusion of separation while living, and the gnashing of teeth in frustration of having to return to the world of living hell when one has not risen above the separation of God and creation, or God and self. It once also taught that the path of the angels was a trap. A place where the mind is mesmerized by grand illusions. Illusions much more appealing mind you than the one of hell, but still illusions of distraction. Clowns can be appealing and entertaining in their grand appearances.

The Gita when correctly interpreted, as is the Bible, speaks highly of transcending the illusions of both heaven and hell.
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Kairos
post May 10, 2011, 04:09 AM
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It was said that when Bodhidharma became enlightened, for seven days he could not stop laughing !
This outburst of laughter and vitality happens when we are living herenow, when our energy in not blocked in the past or in the future ~

A good clown bursts our seriousness, unblocks our energy, releases a sense of humor and a deep laughter in us, engages us in a joyous participation in life -- and Laughter is the best medicine, Laughter is more sacred than prayer.

That´s why Jesus Christ said: REJOICE !


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Joesus
post May 10, 2011, 07:30 AM
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Rejoice meant to embrace in Union. A higher state of consciousness. Laughter might have been inclusive but not the key component to liberation and Bliss.
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Kairos
post May 10, 2011, 08:10 AM
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Wasn´t Bodhidharma´s laughter an outburst of Blissful Moksha, Joesus ?
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Joesus
post May 10, 2011, 02:21 PM
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QUOTE(Kairos @ May 10, 2011, 04:10 PM) *

Wasn´t Bodhidharma´s laughter an outburst of Blissful Moksha, Joesus ?

As I said. Laughter might be inclusive but not the cause of liberation. To rejoice is to praise all things as all things are recognized as God. You might laugh or you may not as a result of praise and gratitude.
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Kairos
post May 10, 2011, 04:41 PM
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Laughter can be very liberating !

Praise and gratitude are not the same as Moksha, Joesus

Rejoicing = Enjoyment Body/Body of Bliss = Sambhogakaya = Long-ku(Tibetan)

Sambhogakaya is a link/bridge between Dharmakaya and Nirmanakaya

Moksha is Dharmakaya/Cho-ku = Dharma body/Body of Truth

Gankyil = Wheel of Joy(Symbol of primordial energy)

3 Bodies of Buddha, 3 Vajras, 3 Jewels, 3 Secrets, or 3 Gateways


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Cassox
post May 11, 2011, 06:07 AM
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Sai Baba. He's the black guy with a big Afro and the orange jacket right?
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Cassox
post May 11, 2011, 06:11 AM
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It's pretty silly that you have to make up an excuse as to why he died earlier than he said. Why don't you simply admit... he was wrong. I can pull a quarter out from behind your ear too. I'm sure "holy ash" isn't much more difficult.
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Joesus
post May 11, 2011, 06:35 AM
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QUOTE(Kairos @ May 11, 2011, 12:41 AM) *

Laughter can be very liberating !
Yes it can give you a temporary feeling or experience to distract you from stress, or the feeling of not being so liberated.
QUOTE(Kairos @ May 11, 2011, 12:41 AM) *

Praise and gratitude are not the same as Moksha, Joesus

Didn't say it was.


QUOTE(Cassox @ May 11, 2011, 02:07 PM) *

Sai Baba. He's the black guy with a big Afro and the orange jacket right?
If you call Indian people Black, then yes, he is sometimes pictured in an orange jacket with clown like hair.. wink.gif
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dattaswami
post May 11, 2011, 05:57 PM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ May 09, 2011, 09:30 PM) *

QUOTE(dattaswami @ May 10, 2011, 02:11 AM) *

Baba said more than enough. Be truthful.

Baba was a clown,
QUOTE(dattaswami @ May 10, 2011, 02:11 AM) *
Follow the justice.

Justice is being able to speak truthfully. Baba was a clown..truthful..just..Life is great!
QUOTE(dattaswami @ May 10, 2011, 02:11 AM) *
Maintain the peace of the world.

The peace of the world is absolute and it supports those who are truthful. Can you say clown wink.gif ....?
QUOTE(dattaswami @ May 10, 2011, 02:11 AM) *
Love every living being.

I love clowns. Who doesn't love a clown?

QUOTE(dattaswami @ May 10, 2011, 02:11 AM) *
These four points constitute the essence of the preaching of Baba. Once Baba told, “You need not come to this place to see Me. Remain in your house and try to practically implement at least one point of My message. Then only I will be happy with you”.
Baba must be ecstatic with me... Oh wait..he's dead. Then he must have been ecstatic while having a heart attack, and a stroke, and then while on life support, until the moment when he died. Maybe he's still ecstatic in death but I hardly feel he is concerned with anyone at this stage of his being. He must be swimming in vibhuti... smile.gif

QUOTE(dattaswami @ May 10, 2011, 02:11 AM) *


(The Gita says that the soul after death has two paths. One path will be to south, which is to the hell to be punished for the sins and the other path will be to north to live with happiness in association with angels).

The Bible also speaks of hell but it describes it as the illusion of separation while living, and the gnashing of teeth in frustration of having to return to the world of living hell when one has not risen above the separation of God and creation, or God and self. It once also taught that the path of the angels was a trap. A place where the mind is mesmerized by grand illusions. Illusions much more appealing mind you than the one of hell, but still illusions of distraction. Clowns can be appealing and entertaining in their grand appearances.

The Gita when correctly interpreted, as is the Bible, speaks highly of transcending the illusions of both heaven and hell.

The very purpose of the human incarnation is to preach the humanity. For this purpose, God takes the human form and behaves like a human being. The behavior itself gives the practical direction to humanity. If God appears in energetic form and gives the message, people will not follow it because there is no practical demonstration by a human being. They will think that the message is practically impossible for human beings. Ofcourse, they will hear the message with lot of reverence to the energetic form with extensive excitation.

This extensive excitation may also cause disturbance in receiving the message and understanding it. Jesus also performed penance on a hill for forty days. Both Sai Baba and Jesus preached that a human being should do penance and realize God practically before preaching about God. The penance means the maintenance of faith on God irrespective of severe practical difficulties. Jesus had no food during penance, which was for a short period. Sai Baba took only Margosa leaves for several years during penance. Even Baba did penance in the childhood, which is nothing but the undisturbed faith that He is Sai Baba. There was lot of torture on Baba to divert Him and Baba never changed. You find Lord Shiva always in the posture of meditation closing His eyes. Lord Shiva is God Himself existing in the energetic human form. In such case, what is the goal of His meditation? He is giving the message to the souls in the energetic bodies to meditate upon God in that way.

He Himself is the goal of His meditation.
God can exist in different human forms simultaneously as per the various programs meant for the welfare of humanity in different aspects. The intensity of the program also varies as per the different standards of the receiving people. You have Parashurama and Shri Rama as simultaneous human incarnations. Parashurama was very furious to warn the kings from further atrocities. Shri Rama was very peaceful because His goal is to be an example for human beings. Both these are simultaneous programs. Even a human being does two types of activities at a time. In such case, why not the omnipotent God? Shirdi Sai Baba was very rough and tough since He preached the villagers. Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa was very soft since He preached the educated public of city.

Both are simultaneous human incarnations. It is impossible for a human being having spatial dimensions to exist in different houses, which have large spatial dimensions. But, God has no spatial dimensions and hence, can exist in different human forms, which have spatial dimensions. Here, to some extent, you can take the simile of current existing in different wires performing different activities. Simultaneously, the current generates sound in T.V., light in a bulb and mechanical motion in a fan. You can take this simile to a great extent because many good aspects of comparison are covered. But, there are limitations even to this simile. Current is a chain of electrons, which may be treated as particles or waves. But, God is not a chain of particles or waves. Both particles and waves have spatial dimensions and hence, current also has spatial dimensions. Therefore, current is quantitatively divided in different instruments but God has no spatial dimensions and such quantitative division is not possible in the case of God.
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dattaswami
post May 11, 2011, 05:58 PM
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QUOTE(Cassox @ May 11, 2011, 07:11 AM) *

It's pretty silly that you have to make up an excuse as to why he died earlier than he said. Why don't you simply admit... he was wrong. I can pull a quarter out from behind your ear too. I'm sure "holy ash" isn't much more difficult.



Nobody should be decided as God based on the mere miracles. Even though miracles establish the existence of God, God can do miracles through anybody. But, mere miracles do not establish the existence of God in anybody, even though any miracle is done by God only. While preaching knowledge, God enters the medium and hence, knowledge is the only identification mark of God. This aspect is stated by the Veda. But, the Veda says that the knowledge should be excellent to the unimaginable level (Prajnanam…). The Veda also says that the knowledge should be true (Satyam Jnanam…). Generally, truth is associated with harshness. Truth alone helps the human being to reach the correct goal. The path to reach God is full of thorns and the path to reach hell is full of flowers. If truth is hidden and the flowery path is shown, the aspirant will go to hell and not to God. Everybody likes to reach God, but, everybody likes to travel in the flowery path only. In such case, you may show the thorny path partially and encourage the aspirant by bringing the goal forward even though the goal is fixed in its actual place only. Due to the short distance, the aspirant will be encouraged and moves forward.

You can repeat the trick again and again till the aspirant reaches the goal. For example, Benaras was a holy centre of knowledge in India filled with several scholars. If you go to Benaras and attain the knowledge from the scholars, you will get realization. Such realization will prevent you doing sins again and by this, your past sins are also excused. In this way, all your sins are destroyed. To encourage the aspirant to go to Benaras in the initial stage, it is said that if you take bath in Ganges at Benaras, all your sins are destroyed. Here, the goal is brought forward. When the aspirant reaches Benaras and takes bath in Ganges, you should say that if one visits the temple of Vishweshwara, all the sins are burnt.

By this, he is encouraged to visit the temple, where he meets the scholars and slowly gets their association to receive the spiritual knowledge. Then it is said if one stays in Benaras forever, he is liberated from all the sins. The permanent stay in association with scholars will certainly transform him and really the goal is achieved. This is showing the thorny path in bits by bringing forward the goal each time, which is not the truth. However, in this method, hiding the truth is not wrong, since you are leading the aspirant in the correct path only. If you show the flowery path and say that it leads to God, it is wrong. But, some preachers adopt this wrong method because the aspirant is very much encouraged by the flowery path and may donate the preacher heavily in excitation. Such preachers are many in the present time.
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Kairos
post May 12, 2011, 04:48 AM
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Joesus wrote: "Rejoice means to embrace in Union." "To rejoice is to praise all things."

The first statement indicates the state of Unity, Oneness, whereas the second statement indicates the state of duality.

"You might laugh or not as a result of praise and gratitude."

"Laughter is not the key component to liberation and Bliss."

The words Laugh and Love are very similar in pronunciation --
Does it not mean that Laugh is akin to Love ?
Wasn´t Bodhidharma´s Laugh a state of LOVE/BLISS ?


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Kairos
post May 12, 2011, 05:31 AM
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In fact, BLISS or state of ecstasy/altered state of consciousness has its origin in ancient shamanic practices.
It has been said that Tibetan lamas/blamas usurped the archaic functions of the Tibetan Bonpo shamans.

"Le Chamanisme et les Techniques Archaiques de l´Extase" by Mircea Eliade
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Joesus
post May 12, 2011, 06:54 AM
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So I take it you are attempting to establish laughter as a state of consciousness?
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Kairos
post May 12, 2011, 07:51 AM
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Yes, Joesus, as the state of innate joy -- the 4th Joy/Ecstasy of 4 Joys/Ecstasies(Tibetan dga-ba bzhi)

4 BLISSES = dga-ba bzhi
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Joesus
post May 12, 2011, 08:18 AM
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A state of consciousness needs a subjective and objective point of reference, like sleeping dreaming and waking that separates it from another state of consciousness. Since laughter is something that can appear as an expression of sleeping dreaming waking and even higher states of consciousness, it seems a bit of a stretch to decide that laughter is a state of consciousness separate from the others. You might as well make crying, barfing and shitting a state of consciousness as well.

You can feel pretty blissful after a good cry, a good puking and even a healthy shit. rolleyes.gif
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dattaswami
post May 12, 2011, 06:24 PM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ May 12, 2011, 07:54 AM) *

So I take it you are attempting to establish laughter as a state of consciousness?

The way to attain the sate of God

According to Veda, God created this world for His entertainment and He is enjoying all the scenes of this creation. If you can enjoy all the incidents of your life in a similar way, you have attained the state of God and this is the monism (Advaita) preached by Shankara. Shankara told that the Lordship (Eshwara) is a myth (Mithya) in this context. This means that when God and the soul are enjoying the creation equally with continuous entertainment, there is no need of bringing the irrelevant Lordship of creation, ruling and destruction of the world in this context.

The peon is seeing the cinema along with the producer and director. The state of producer and director is meaningless to differentiate the peon and producer cum director as far as the enjoyment of the cinema as a spectator is concerned. Mithya means neither true nor false. The producer cum director is sitting in the hall and therefore the state of producer cum director is not false. But still the state of producer cum director is unnecessary and irrelevant as far as the common spectatorship is concerned. Therefore the state of producer cum director is neither true nor false. Hence it is called as Mithya.
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Phi
post May 12, 2011, 08:07 PM
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Doesn't this point of view neglect the idea of being an active participant in creating the world(which I would assume would lead to complacency)?
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dattaswami
post May 12, 2011, 08:26 PM
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QUOTE(Phi @ May 12, 2011, 09:07 PM) *

Doesn't this point of view neglect the idea of being an active participant in creating the world(which I would assume would lead to complacency)?

An engineer planned a house and constructed it. The house is matter consisting of atoms bonded by bond energies. Since matter is energy the whole house is energy. The planning of the engineer is work. Since energy is work, the house is work and since planning is also work, the house becomes the planning of the engineer. The engineer is also made of matter, energy and life. Since life is energy and matter is also energy, the engineer is also energy. Since the energy is work, the engineer himself is work or planning. Thus the engineer, planning and the house have been reduced to simply one item namely work. But there cannot be work without the worker. The worker must exist.

When you see the house and do not see the engineer there, do you not infer the engineer? You also say that the entire house is the work of the engineer. Therefore, seeing the work, you must infer the existence of the worker. Similarly seeing the creation, which is the work of God, one must infer the existence of its invisible worker—God. The second Brahma Sutra (Janmadyasya yatah) says the same. You cannot say that creation itself is the creator because worker and work are seen separately in this world. The house cannot construct itself. Such a systematic well-planned universe certainly demands the existence of its engineer

The other field is the unimaginable God with inherent unimaginable super powers called as Maya. This Super Power can never be isolated from God as said in Gita (Mayinamtu Maheswaram). This super power or Maya is the specific power of God used in His play of entertainment as said in Veda (Indro Mayaabhih….). When God gives a boon to any devotee, the devotee thinks that the super power of God entered him, which is being used by him. It is a false notion. God may give you a boon that you will create any thing by your will. You are thinking that the super power of God has entered you and that you are creating any thing using your super power. You will realize that this is absolutely wrong, if you realize the actual technique. When you wanted to create something, then that is created. No doubt! But what is exactly happening? When you wanted to create something, then the invisible God is creating that because He has given a boon to you to that effect.

Yourself and the other spectators are thinking that it is created by you with the help of the super power given to you by the God. It is only an illusion. Therefore, a real devotee having true knowledge will always say that God has done the miracle, even though the miracle was expressed by Him. Therefore, the Maya or super power can never be separated from God. If you are His true devotee, you can perform the miracles which are actually done by Him in invisible way. Therefore, you are getting the super power (in the sense of external world) through total surrender, devotion and selfless service to God in His Mission. You cannot achieve the super power through any amount of sharp intelligence or techniques or instruments or by any self effort. The basic reason is that you can never achieve the super power in real sense. The achievement of super powers mentioned in Yoga Sutras of Patanjali is spoken in this external sense only. This is the field of unimaginable powers or Maya.
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dattaswami
post May 12, 2011, 08:28 PM
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QUOTE(Phi @ May 12, 2011, 09:07 PM) *

Doesn't this point of view neglect the idea of being an active participant in creating the world(which I would assume would lead to complacency)?

The essence of the entire message of Lord Krishna, Bhagavad Gita, is to develop the highest state in which you can be in the state of continuous enjoyment and happiness through entertainment. If you can enjoy the problems also, such continuous state of happiness is possible. The human being has always the worst tendency to pick-up negative things only in the life and go on brooding over those things. Either you should avoid thinking about those negative things (dhyayato vishayaan …) or you should be able to enjoy those negative things also like the dish of chillies in meals.

Avoiding the thinking of negative things in the life is impossible since they touch and penetrate the mind in the practical life. Therefore, the only alternative way is to enjoy those things also and be happy in every minute of life. Such state is called as Brahmi sthiti (Eshaa brahmi sthitih …), which means that you should continuously enjoy your life containing both positive and negative things like God enjoying His creation containing both good and bad.


You become equal to God in this state of enjoyment (Enjoying both +ve and –ve things in life) and this is the only possible monism (advaita). You are in the state of maintained creation and you are enjoying the creation like God (if you enjoy both good and bad in the life). You are not in the state before creation, in which you cannot be equal to God since He is creating everything and you cannot create anything.

You are not in the state of final dissolution of the world in which He is destroying everything and you cannot destroy anything. You are in the best state of maintenance of creation in which you cannot be differentiated from God since you are enjoying the creation like God. There is no trace of difference as long as the aspect of enjoyment of the world-cinema containing both scenes of happiness and tragedy is concerned. Even the extreme tragedy, the death, is not an exception to such entertainment (sthitvaasyaamantakalepi …).

Krishna followed this (continuously enjoying life containing both positive and negative things) in His life and His preaching, the Gita, was perfectly implemented in His practice. He was enjoying His own death while the foot was bleeding, hit by the hunter. He consoled the hunter and removed his tension over the incident. He enjoyed the genocide of His family members as a spectator in the end.

He enjoyed the defeat in the hands of the enemies like Jarasandha, who flew away to construct a new city in the island present in the ocean. He enjoyed while Shishupala was repeatedly scolding Him and was never subjected to any tension. He enjoyed while He was called as the thief of butter in other houses. Except entertainment and enjoyment, even a trace of tension could not touch Him in His entire life.

You may say that God is enjoying the world-cinema since He is away from it. You may differentiate from God by this, stating that you are participating in the cinema. This cannot be accepted since God also entered the world-cinema as Krishna and participated in it like you. The only difference is that He is acting in the role, where as you are living in the role by completely identifying yourself with it. Such divine knowledge applies to you also and Shankara preached this.


The soul and God are exactly equal as far as the detached enjoyment is concerned

The God is detached from the drama because He differentiated Himself from the role. You can also detach yourself from the role by identifying yourself as the soul of pure awareness. The detachment and its continuous knowledge are the ground for entertainment and enjoyment in the drama forever. Thus, the philosophy preached by Shankara is perfectly applicable as far as this state of entertainment through detachment is concerned.

The perfect monism between God and a realized soul is achieved (Matbhavamaagataah…). This means that the soul and God are exactly equal as far as the detached enjoyment is concerned and this does not mean that God and soul are one and the same.


The difference between God and soul is clear when the two states viz. before creation and the end of creation are concerned. Even during the present state of maintenance of the world is concerned, God controls the entire world where as the soul is a part of the world and is controlled by God. The producer and director of the cinema is the total boss and can control even the running state of the cinema. But, his servant sitting along with Him as the spectator of the cinema is exactly in equal state with Him as far as the entertainment and enjoyment through detachment is concerned. The producership, directorship and control over the running of the show etc. are not relevant points and cannot differentiate the servant as far as the limited angle of entertainment is concerned.


If you close your eyes serving the boss without seeing the cinema, you are hurting the boss, because he will be happy if you enjoy like him seeing his creation. Therefore, God is not pleased with those who run away from the cinema and engage themselves in His praise only. Your enjoyment of His creation without any tension shows that you are totally appreciating His work and talent in creating this universe. If you are suffering due to some aspect in the creation, that shows that His work is defective. Your tension indicates your dislike to some part of the creation. If you enjoy with every item and situation in the world, you have appreciated His creation totally in every direction. God will be extremely pleased with such state.
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Kairos
post May 13, 2011, 03:05 AM
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When we laugh, Joesus, we are in a certain state of consciousness, the same as when we cry...
The whole universe is the field of energy-consciousness.

The whole teaching of Buddha is about the cause of suffering and the end of suffering = Dukkha Nirodha Sacca

Demi-God writes about the Lila(Play-Enjoyment) of the Creator~~~

"In this body there is another, a transcendental enjoyer, who is the Lord, and who is known as the Supersoul.
This Supersoul is the source of light . He is knowledge, He is the object of knowledge, and He is the goal of knowledge.
He is situated in everyone´s heart. He is Purusa/The Enjoyer.

Arjuna said: "O my dear Krsna, I wish to know about prakrti/Nature, purusa/The Enjoyer, and the field and the knower of the field."
Then the Lord said: "This body is called the field, and one who knows this body is called the knower of the field."

Bhagavad Gita, chapter 13 "Nature, the Enjoyer, and Consciousness"

Heard of the Laughing Buddha, Joesus ?
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dattaswami
post May 13, 2011, 05:23 AM
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QUOTE(Kairos @ May 13, 2011, 04:05 AM) *

When we laugh, Joesus, we are in a certain state of consciousness, the same as when we cry...
The whole universe is the field of energy-consciousness.

The whole teaching of Buddha is about the cause of suffering and the end of suffering = Dukkha Nirodha Sacca

Demi-God writes about the Lila(Play-Enjoyment) of the Creator~~~

"In this body there is another, a transcendental enjoyer, who is the Lord, and who is known as the Supersoul.
This Supersoul is the source of light . He is knowledge, He is the object of knowledge, and He is the goal of knowledge.
He is situated in everyone´s heart. He is Purusa/The Enjoyer.

Arjuna said: "O my dear Krsna, I wish to know about prakrti/Nature, purusa/The Enjoyer, and the field and the knower of the field."
Then the Lord said: "This body is called the field, and one who knows this body is called the knower of the field."

Bhagavad Gita, chapter 13 "Nature, the Enjoyer, and Consciousness"

Heard of the Laughing Buddha, Joesus ?

"In this body there is another, a transcendental enjoyer, who is the Lord, and who is known as the Supersoul.
This Supersoul is the source of light . He is knowledge, He is the object of knowledge, and He is the goal of knowledge.

This correct with respect to present human incarantion. Krishna was human incarnation of that generation. God comes in human form in every generation ni Human form by entering a most deserving devotee existing on the earth known as 'Son of God', the combination of God and Son of God is known as 'Human incarnation'. THus IN the human incarnation, Soul and Super soul exists. This is not true to all the poeople.


God enters a living body

Veda says that two birds are on a single tree. This means that God enters a living body and is in association with the soul.

Veda says that God and soul exist together in a living body (Dvaasuparnaa…). Therefore, the medium of God is always a living body and not any inert item in the world. The bird represents a living item. God is beyond living and inert items. God can exhibit any property of any item because the items and properties of the world are generated from God only. Hence, God exhibits the properties of life also, though He is beyond life. Hence, God and soul are treated as two living items or two living birds.

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