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> God did not create the Universe, says Stephen Hawkins, excerpts from his new book
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post Sep 02, 2010, 04:49 AM
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So, if I understand him correctly, there is a God, but he/she did not create the Universe? LOL! First the aliens article, and now this. What kind of pain medicine is he on, anyways!


http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6811FN20100902

(Reuters) - God did not create the universe and the "Big Bang" was an inevitable consequence of the laws of physics, the eminent British theoretical physicist Stephen Hawking argues in a new book.

In "The Grand Design," co-authored with U.S. physicist Leonard Mlodinow, Hawking says a new series of theories made a creator of the universe redundant, according to the Times newspaper which published extracts on Thursday.

"Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist," Hawking writes.

"It is not necessary to invoke God to light the blue touch paper and set the universe going."

Hawking, 68, who won global recognition with his 1988 book "A Brief History of Time," an account of the origins of the universe, is renowned for his work on black holes, cosmology and quantum gravity.

Since 1974, the scientist has worked on marrying the two cornerstones of modern physics -- Albert Einstein's General Theory of Relativity, which concerns gravity and large-scale phenomena, and quantum theory, which covers subatomic particles.

His latest comments suggest he has broken away from previous views he has expressed on religion. Previously, he wrote that the laws of physics meant it was simply not necessary to believe that God had intervened in the Big Bang.

He wrote in A Brief History ... "If we discover a complete theory, it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason -- for then we should know the mind of God."

In his latest book, he said the 1992 discovery of a planet orbiting another star other than the Sun helped deconstruct the view of the father of physics Isaac Newton that the universe could not have arisen out of chaos but was created by God.

"That makes the coincidences of our planetary conditions -- the single Sun, the lucky combination of Earth-Sun distance and solar mass, far less remarkable, and far less compelling evidence that the Earth was carefully designed just to please us human beings," he writes.

Hawking, who is only able to speak through a computer-generated voice synthesizer, has a neuro muscular dystrophy that has progressed over the years and left him almost completely paralyzed.

He began suffering the disease in his early 20s but went on to establish himself as one of the world's leading scientific authorities, and has also made guest appearances in "Star Trek" and the cartoons "Futurama" and "The Simpsons."

Last year he announced he was stepping down as Cambridge University's Lucasian Professor of Mathematics, a position once held by Newton and one he had held since 1979.

"The Grand Design" is due to go on sale next week.

(Editing by Steve Addison)

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GodConsciousness
post Sep 02, 2010, 05:45 AM
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CB- I was thinking about posting something about this myself. Should definitely stir up a little fodder.

Hey, what's going on with your avatar again?
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PJS
post Sep 18, 2011, 05:43 PM
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Nothing is made from the absence of energy. Energy is made up of dark energy and dark matter. To subtract these two entities from a package of energy leaves nothing. To add these two entities makes a parcel of energy.

Subtract and add fast enough and both states of nothing and 1 whole of energy will be present at the same time. This makes space. The mathematical process is (an - bn - cn = 0)

dark matter bn = 0.888...9
dark energy cn = 0.111...1
1 parcel of energy an = 1.0
the void = 0

E=mc^2 is a straight line of energy c^2 miles long at 0 mass. These two states of 1 whole of energy and 0 mass are present at the same time. To reduce total space to nothing means that energy is existing in time as part of the subtraction process outlined for dark energy and dark matter.

Consequently the universe could emerge from the law of gravity which is the force that attracts dark energy and dark matter through the gravitational pull of hypothetical pi "-H-" which is the sqrt (pi * 3P) of irrational and rational pi. As these two energies are added in time they could possibly make up 1 whole "an" and appear to come from nothing.

However to have nothing requires energy and time first from a place for time to be born from like
x^3 - 2x^2 = 1 when x^2 + 1 = 0. That one is extremely fast and everywhere at once. To slow down 1/2 second in every direction produces great amounts of energy over time.

So the universe could be created from the part process of being nothing but mathematically it seems impossible to remove God out of the picture altogether.
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Magister Hayk
post Sep 19, 2011, 11:11 AM
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QUOTE
God did not create the Universe, says Stephen Hawkins


If I have been the God who created the Universe and mankind I would embed in the very structure of the Universe a very obvious and unmistakably readable message to mankind, a message making impossible to assume absence of my existence.

In my view those scientists who want scientifically to check up existence of God who created the Universe and mankind should try to find that very message.

How that can be done?

For example, in my view those scientists should research such fundamental numbers as:

1. pi
2. Plank's constant h
3. Euler's number e
etc

on subject of containment of certain and self-evident textual message, maybe something else should be researched instead of those numbers, but if He/She exists then there should be such an embedded message which mankind should find, that is just my opinion.
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Magister Hayk
post Sep 19, 2011, 03:16 PM
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I disagree, that logic is not applicable in this particular case.

Circle lies at foundation of existence of the entire Universe. If the Universe is created by someone then I assume that He/She had to embed in the well known parameters I numbered above a certain, clear and easily readable message directed to creatures created within that very Universe. That is just my private opinion.
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Joesus
post Sep 19, 2011, 05:29 PM
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In which case the mathematical approach only leads to a mathematical observation rather than the entire range of a fluid picture that has more than a mathematical quality.
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Magister Hayk
post Sep 20, 2011, 03:12 AM
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Madam, do not complicate very simple and clear suppositions.

People need simple and clear messages.
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Magister Hayk
post Sep 20, 2011, 11:50 PM
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The idea accentuated at is not a novel one:

"In Carl Sagan's novel Contact, Pi played a key role in the story. The novel suggested that there was a message buried deep within the digits of Pi placed there by the creator of the universe. This part of the story was omitted from the film adaptation of the novel."

The other question is if the message is truly embedded, then how decipher it?

In my view the algorithm of deciphering if it exists should be terribly simple, cute and funny.

Maybe one day Mankind eventually shall find the clue.
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Magister Hayk
post Sep 22, 2011, 08:01 PM
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Madam,

Dr. Carl Sagan and I are speaking about simple message embedded probably in a readable text form (the later is my idea) in an array of numbers of the above mentioned 'Universal Constants'.

It is very simple. And there is no need to complicate things.
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Magister Hayk
post Sep 22, 2011, 08:02 PM
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If the message in the text form exists then eventually mankind shall decipher it.
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Magister Hayk
post Sep 23, 2011, 11:13 PM
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Madam,

I am talking about simple conversion (deciphering) of array of numbers into a text message clearly readable by a conventional inhabitant of our planet.

I should disagree with you,
1) in my view there is no need to kill anybody to get the Deciphering Code, it is just a matter of conventional research,
2) in my view the Deciphering Code is so simple and obvious that it is accessible to any person on earth,
3) it is quite another issue how to Decipher the Code and what contains what.

I am sure that if the message and its Creator exist then mankind eventually shall find the clue.
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Magister Hayk
post Nov 07, 2011, 09:59 PM
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Btw, instead of God along with the Message I would encrypt some sort of Picture in those numbers.

Just imagine what kind of smiling picture can emerge when the code shall be decoded. Certainly it is just a supposition.
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Quantum Sunlight
post Nov 08, 2011, 06:20 PM
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Ugh Hawking is the pinnacle of arrogance...

Great link. Personally I don't believe God consciously created the universe anymore than I consciously created my own physical body...
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Joesus
post Nov 08, 2011, 07:03 PM
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Then you don't know God.
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Quantum Sunlight
post Nov 10, 2011, 10:15 AM
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That's probably true. I project everything I know about myself, and what I know to be true in my own life into my speculations about the nature of God... This way I believe I can understand his general nature and worldview. Like the Hindus say about Brahman, the supreme spirit... He has more or less the same worldview as the least of those that dwell inside of him.

I believe we are each a tiny part of God's living body, and that the Big Bang was him being 'born', or at least conceived. Thinking about the universe in the same way I think of my own physical body, I find, helps me to understand it better as well.
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Quantum Sunlight
post Nov 10, 2011, 11:37 AM
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What do you think is the mindset of the trillions of living things that dwell within you, Joe? Do you think they are wind-up toys, or without consciousness or personality? Or do you believe that they may experience their own day to day lives in much the same way that you do? Do you think they realize that they're actually a very important part of something much bigger?
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Joesus
post Nov 10, 2011, 05:44 PM
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QUOTE(Quantum Sunlight @ Nov 10, 2011, 07:37 PM) *

What do you think is the mindset of the trillions of living things that dwell within you, Joe? Do you think they are wind-up toys, or without consciousness or personality? Or do you believe that they may experience their own day to day lives in much the same way that you do? Do you think they realize that they're actually a very important part of something much bigger?

All of your cells that now make up your physical form obviously exist at once. Imagine that you have many lives enduring in the same fashion. Instead of cells you have selves. Each cell has its own memory. The self-memory is of course, of far greater dimension. Think of the greater you..call it entity if you will... as forming a psychic structure quite as real as your physical one, but composed of many selves. As each cell of your body has its position within your corporeal space and boundaries, so each self within the entity is aware of its own time and dimension of activity. The body is a temporal structure. The cells, however, while a part of this body, are not aware of the entire dimension in which your consciousness dwells. They do not perceive all of the elements that are available even in three dimensional experience, yet your present consciousness, seemingly so much more sophisticated, physically rests upon cellular awareness.
So the entity or "greater" psychic structure of which you are a part is aware of much larger dimensions of activity than you are, yet in the same way its more sophisticated consciousness rests upon your own, and one is necessary to the other.

In physical life there is a lapse while messages leap the nerve ends. In other terms and on other levels, this was represented in that "moment of reflection" that took place as man's consciousness differentiated itself from that of the animals.
In still other terms and at different levels this lapse occurs...this moment of reflection extends itself...as the self leaps clear of the physical form (even as the cell at one time deserts the body). In this regard now, and for the sake of the analogy only, think of the life of the self as one message leaping across the nerve cells of a multidimensional structure...again, as real as your body...and consider it also as a greater "moment of reflection" on the part of such a many-sided personality.

You could say God is more than the totality of all Selves and it does not need or want, but its nature includes desire which is superior to that of need or want.
The big bang is a theory concocted by the imagination that there needs to be a beginning and an end which is dependent upon the physical structures of what man insists reality is made of. This universe is in constant flux. What we perceive as real is constantly changing and as we accept the changes as if they were always there, we imagine that our universe had a beginning, and that it will have its own end. In one sense it begins and ends every time we close our eyes to sleep and wake up the next morning. Our consciousness leaves the physical body and re-enters it almost as often as the air we breath exits and enters the body. It is constantly forming the body again and again exchanging the atoms and molecules that make it what it is, and it is our active attention that accepts how it shall be assembled and reassembled.
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Quantum Sunlight
post Nov 10, 2011, 07:45 PM
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Wow... Great reply. Thank you for taking the time to type all that out... I'm going to read it a couple more times before replying myself...
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Quantum Sunlight
post Nov 10, 2011, 07:52 PM
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Again, thank you, it's not often that I learn that much from one post. From what you are saying, I think we're both in agreement... As you say, cells are temporal and our consciousness is on a higher level, scarcely perceptible to the cells of the body. To those cells, my consciousness is God. I am the only one that can affect change for them. And my cells and I, we are one link in the karma chain, the never-ending fractal pattern... Because we are two things at once, 'God' and cell to a bigger 'God', who as you say, exists on a higher level than we the cells...
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Quantum Sunlight
post Nov 10, 2011, 08:02 PM
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Doubtless you have heard that an hour and a minute can be divided the same number of times... Infinite. Because you can halve forever, and you will always be left with a half... And so your temporal cells, as you said... If we investigate closely, I suspect we would find that they too are made of cells, and they do also possess this God-consciousness. Because you can't make something out of nothing... Each time you investigate, you will find the same thing, only smaller. And you probably know string theory better than I. But it seems to me that strings can only be made up of much smaller strings... This is why I believe I do understand the general viewpoint of God... As it is the same as mine, only bigger...
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post Nov 10, 2011, 08:10 PM
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QUOTE(Quantum Sunlight @ Nov 11, 2011, 04:02 AM) *

This is why I believe I do understand the general viewpoint of God... As it is the same as mine, only bigger...
The same only bigger... would mean that God accepts your viewpoint as a viewpoint but...Your viewpoint does not encompass, contain or describe God. God can be experienced but no experience can contain God. God can be described but no description can contain or describe God. One can only point in a direction.

You might like to read "Eternal Words" by JJ Dewey. It does an interesting job with describing the microcosm within the macrocosm, and with relationship to consciousness as it exists at the level of particles.
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Quantum Sunlight
post Nov 11, 2011, 07:54 PM
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QUOTE(Joesus @ Nov 10, 2011, 08:10 PM) *

QUOTE(Quantum Sunlight @ Nov 11, 2011, 04:02 AM) *

This is why I believe I do understand the general viewpoint of God... As it is the same as mine, only bigger...
The same only bigger... would mean that God accepts your viewpoint as a viewpoint but...Your viewpoint does not encompass, contain or describe God. God can be experienced but no experience can contain God. God can be described but no description can contain or describe God. One can only point in a direction.

You might like to read "Eternal Words" by JJ Dewey. It does an interesting job with describing the microcosm within the macrocosm, and with relationship to consciousness as it exists at the level of particles.


"One can only point in a direction." I agree totally. smile.gif

Thank you for the tip... I'm going to seek out and find that particular book online right now actually.
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Joesus
post Nov 12, 2011, 09:44 AM
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I would recommend you read the series beginning with the immortal book 1 and 2. If you buy the series he gives you the first two free.
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