Printable Version of Topic

Click here to view this topic in its original format

BrainMeta.com Forum _ Meditation & Mindset _ Self-Hypnosis

Posted by: fotia May 15, 2004, 08:25 PM

Greetings. I would like to re-program the subconcious aspect of my mind so I can have more control and focus in what I do. The most effective method I could think of was self-hypnosis. Please give me accounts of self-hypnosis so I can see if I was right about it being an effective method, and also [if possible] refer me to sites/books/give me instructions on how to perform self hypnosis. I think this will be a good way to become who I want to be and do what I aspire to do.
-Fotia

Posted by: Unknown May 15, 2004, 08:30 PM

I would suggest googling for NLP, Neuro-Linguistic Programming, and see if that floats your boat.

Posted by: Jasper Oct 31, 2004, 04:18 PM

My advice is just to be yourself to find the real you as I can see you very clearly.....and never ask for anyones elses help to do this again without looking inside yourself first! Age dosen't matter didly squat, as we are all far too young to reason and much too old to dream?

LOve Jasper


Posted by: lgking Oct 31, 2004, 08:57 PM

This is the first time I have seen this thread and it amazes me that it has had so few responses. How come, I wonder?

Fotia, if you are still around, feel free to check my site http://brainmeta.com/redirect/redirlink2/redir.php?id=brainmeta.com/redirect/redirlink2/redir.php?id=http://www.flfcanada.com where I am wriiting quite a bit about hypnosis--yes, I have been qualified in the art since the 1960's. I highly recommend the methods advocated by the late Dr. Milton Erickson, one of the originators of NLP, and a spiritually-rooted psychiatrist.

Basically speaking, self-hypnosis is really the art of talking to oneself--that is, being able to carry on a moral, ethical and rational kind of internal dialogue. Sounds simple, but there are pitfalls, which, thank G-d, can be avoided if we are willing to take the time develop a basic understanding of our human nature--that is, the physical, mental and spiritual components of ouor human nature.

Posted by: fotia Jan 31, 2006, 05:10 PM

QUOTE(lgking @ Oct 31, 08:57 PM) *

This is the first time I have seen this thread and it amazes me that it has had so few responses. How come, I wonder?

Fotia, if you are still around, feel free to check my site http://brainmeta.com/redirect/redirlink2/redir.php?id=brainmeta.com/redirect/redirlink2/redir.php?id=http://www.flfcanada.com where I am wriiting quite a bit about hypnosis--yes, I have been qualified in the art since the 1960's. I highly recommend the methods advocated by the late Dr. Milton Erickson, one of the originators of NLP, and a spiritually-rooted psychiatrist.

Basically speaking, self-hypnosis is really the art of talking to oneself--that is, being able to carry on a moral, ethical and rational kind of internal dialogue. Sounds simple, but there are pitfalls, which, thank G-d, can be avoided if we are willing to take the time develop a basic understanding of our human nature--that is, the physical, mental and spiritual components of ouor human nature.


I very much clicked with the lattermost paragraph (this now being about a year and 9 months since my post, much has changed within me). I notice the amount of my inner dialogue has increased a lot, and I notice this inner dialogue is sometimes at a climax during sleep.
I guess self hypnosis just includes a lot of affirmation of the self's inclinations.
I'll be reading your link soon and possibly mention in here what catches my attention.

Posted by: lgking Feb 01, 2006, 06:21 PM

[quote name='fotia' post='58754' date='Jan 31, 05:10 PM']
[quote name='lgking' post='40857' date='Oct 31, 08:57 PM']
This is the first time I have seen this thread and it amazes me that it has had so few responses. How come, I wonder?
=========================

Keep in mind that the following is a revision of the first post I made to Fotia.

Fotia, if you are still around, feel free to check my site http://brainmeta.com/redirect/redirlink2/redir.php?id=brainmeta.com/redirect/redirlink2/redir.php?id=http://www.flfcanada.com where I am writing quite a bit about hypnosis--yes, I have been qualified in the art since the 1960's. By the way, I highly recommend the methods advocated by the late Dr. Milton Erickson, one of the originators of NLP. He was a spiritually-rooted psychiatrist.

WHAT IS SELF-HYPNOSIS?
Basically speaking, self-hypnosis is really the art of talking to oneself--that is, being able to carry on a moral, ethical and rational kind of internal dialogue. I call it PNEUMATHERAPY--healing the self, not hypnotherapy. Check out PNEUMATOLOGY--the study of the spirit--in a good dictionary and encyclopedia.

The term 'hypnosis', which comes from the Greek for sleep is, in my opinion, a misnomer. The goal, it seems to me, is not to have people fall asleep, it is to have them wake up, to become truly conscious of the power of the human spirit, the pneuma effect. Jesus, in the Gospel of John, chapter 3, Jesus speaks to Nicodemus and tells him how important it is to be "born of the Pneuma (Spirit). In chapter 4, he says to the Samaritan woman: "God is Spirit (Pneuma).
============================
Sounds simple? However, there are pitfalls, which, thank G-D, can be avoided if we are willing to take the time to develop a basic understanding of our human nature. That is, we need to understand that we are a complex combination of the physical, mental and spiritual components of our human nature. By taking the time to learn the art of willing good--loving, self, others and our universe--we can master integrating these three components.


Just a few minutes ago--as I write this, it is now about 9:30 PM, Toronto time, Wednesday, February 1, 2006--I was led to this section of this forum which I have not visited for some time. I noticed the following:

Fotian wrote: "I very much clicked with the lattermost paragraph (this now being about a year and 9 months since my post, much has changed within me). I notice the amount of my inner dialogue has increased a lot, and I notice this inner dialogue is sometimes at a climax during sleep.
I guess self hypnosis just includes a lot of affirmation of the self's inclinations.
I'll be reading your link soon and possibly mention in here what catches my attention."

If you take note of this, please feel free to tell us the latest.

Posted by: lgking Feb 01, 2006, 08:03 PM

QUOTE(Jasper @ Oct 31, 04:18 PM) *

My advice is just to be yourself to find the real you as I can see you very clearly.....and never ask for anyones elses help to do this again without looking inside yourself first! Age dosen't matter didly squat, as we are all far too young to reason and much too old to dream? Love Jasper
I like a quote I heard recently. It goes like this: "Youth often make the mistake of thinking that intelligence is more important than experience. Old timers make the mistake of thinking that experience is more important than intelligence."

May I add: Intelligence and experience will both serve to help us reach our goal, and, meanwhile, have the wisdom to enjoy the journey, when we use our imaginations under the guidance of the highest good, love.



Posted by: RevLGKing2 Jan 10, 2007, 08:55 AM

Flex, et al: I (Lindsay, using my sons's 'puter) am including this quote from SELF-HYPNOSIS--help a teen, because the kind of internal dialogue we have with ourselves very much affacts how we relate to others, personally. Self-hypnosis is all about what we say to ourselves.


[quote name='fotia' post='58754' date='Jan 31, 05:10 PM']
[quote name='lgking' post='40857' date='Oct 31, 08:57 PM']

This is the first time I have seen this thread, and it amazes me that it has had so few responses. How come, I wonder?
===============================

Keep in mind that the following is a revision of the first post I made to Fotia. Feel free to go back and check it out, for details.

Fotia, if you are still around, feel free to check my site where I am writing quite a bit about hypnosis--yes, I have been qualified in the art since the 1960's. By the way, I highly recommend the methods advocated by the late Dr. Milton Erickson, one of the originators of NLP. He was a spiritually-rooted psychiatrist.

WHAT IS SELF-HYPNOSIS?
Basically speaking, self-hypnosis is really the art of talking to oneself--that is, being able to carry on a moral, ethical and rational kind of internal dialogue. I call it PNEUMATHERAPY--healing the self, not hypnotherapy. Check out PNEUMATOLOGY--the study of the spirit--in a good dictionary and encyclopedia.

The term 'hypnosis', which comes from the Greek for sleep is, in my opinion, a misnomer. The goal, it seems to me, is not to have people fall asleep, it is to have them wake up, to become truly conscious of the power of the human spirit, the pneuma effect. Jesus, in the Gospel of John, chapter 3, Jesus speaks to Nicodemus and tells him how important it is to be "born of the Pneuma (Spirit). In chapter 4, he says to the Samaritan woman: "God is Spirit (Pneuma).
============================
Sounds simple? However, there are pitfalls, which, thank G-D, can be avoided if we are willing to take the time to develop a basic understanding of our human nature. That is, we need to understand that we are a complex combination of the physical, mental and spiritual components of our human nature. By taking the time to learn the art of willing good--loving, self, others and our universe--we can master integrating these three components.


Just a few minutes ago--as I write this, it is now about 9:30 PM, Toronto time, Wednesday, February 1, 2006--I was led to this section of this forum which I have not visited for some time. I noticed the following:

Fotian wrote: "I very much clicked with the lattermost paragraph (this now being about a year and 9 months since my post, much has changed within me). I notice the amount of my inner dialogue has increased a lot, and I notice this inner dialogue is sometimes at a climax during sleep.

I guess self hypnosis just includes a lot of affirmation of the self's inclinations.


I'll be reading your link soon and possibly mention in here what catches my attention."

If you take note of this, please feel free to tell us the latest."


Posted by: simon Jan 10, 2007, 10:22 AM

Meditate. Allow what comes up. Breath. Relax. Let it go.

Posted by: Lindsay Jan 10, 2007, 02:49 PM

Simon, tell us who you are, please.

You can do this in "Introduce Yourself". If you wish to remain anonymous, okay--But let us know if this is so, okay?--ME? I am always curious about people who post interesting posts. Don't be shy! Okay? smile.gif

Posted by: maximus242 Jan 10, 2007, 06:36 PM

Sigh*

Okay since no one else seems to be helping you and since ive done about 500 hours of self-hypnosis, I am fairly well versed in the subject. Okay, need to know a couple of things

#1 Is this your first time being hypnotised?

#2 Give me examples of what commands and changes you want to make.

#3 Do you have a tape recorder or microphone on your computer?

Answer these three things and I will type up a script for you with instructions on what to do ect.

Ive done levels of hypnosis most people dont even know exist, like DHI and Hypnotically Induced Visual Hallucinations. Sub-conscious programming is a breeze to do, you will find the more you do self hypnosis, the easier it becomes. I would say the most useful programming is overcoming fears and forgetting past faliures, with those two things properly used - the results are quite phenominal.

NLP is OKAY, but it is washed down hypnosis at best, NLP is more pre-hypnosis than hypnosis. It prepares the subject and is used to examine the way they think - basically get inside their head. A very good book that does not use hypnosis is Psycho-Cybernetics by Maxwell Maltz, its like ten bucks brand new and has been used by Olympic Athletes for decades.

If your looking to read about hypnosis, dont waste your time on those hypnosis for dummies, ect. Go to the University Library and read anything by Milton Erickson.

Whatever, answer the questions and il get a script written up for you. Im a bit busy and havent been online so it might be a day or two.

Posted by: Lindsay Jan 10, 2007, 10:19 PM

Max, interestingly, I met Maxwell Maltz, years ago, when he made a visit to Toronto. Naturally, I have his books and his wonderful taped course for children, which, IMO, should be used in all our schools.

I also have Jay Hayley's, SELECTED PAPERS OF Milton Erickson. I don't think ME, actually, ever wrote a book.

BTW, have you heard of CLINICAL AND EXPERIMENTAL HYPNOSIS (1974) by W.S. Kroger?--The book, a very large and detailed volume, is the result of 30 years work in the field.

Kroger puts a lot of emphasis on the value of faith and spirituality as aids to inducing hypnosis. He points out that science-oriented clergy, especially ones with some psychological--and I would add, pneumatological--insight and training, can make good hypnotists, because people already tend to have faith in them.

By profession, Dr. Kroger was a gynecologist, in Chicago.

FOR THE RELIEF OF PAIN AND STRESS.
Just today, I had an opportunity to make practical use of what I call pneumatherapy--hypnosis without the hocus pocus--on my 15 year old granddaughter. Yesterday afternoon, she had all her wisdom teeth extracted. This morning, my son daughter-in-law asked me to help her get over it as she was having a lot of pain.

This morning, she was under a great deal of pain, with swelling in the jaw and neck. Only able to take liquids, she was also under a great deal of stress. I got to her house about 10:00 AM, I did one session with her, which took about twenty minutes. Following this, she had three periods of solid sleep, which I suggested she would.

This evening, she ate a full meal, at the supper hour. With the swelling gone, she has been comfortable, since then. Over the last while, she has been watching her favourite sit coms.

THE TECHNIQUE I USED around 10:30 AM
As she and others in the family already know about the nature and function of pneumatherapy, without much ado, I was able to go right ahead and use my favourite technique--colours:

All the colours are useful, but I usually begin with the primary colours--Red as metaphor of the soma component, or body; yellow, as a metaphor for the psyche, or mind, and blue as a metaphor for the spirit, or pneuma. In conjunction with the colours I used deep breathing.

Sometimes I use bright coloured cards.

However. based on an experiment I did on myself, recently--which I demonstrated to my GD, today--this time I used an incandescent light.

I told her: This is what works for me: With my eyes closed, gently, I hold a 40 watt light bulb--turned on, of course, close to my closed eyes.

The warm light passing through my eye lids make it appear that my brain is filled with the colour red, especially if I hold it close. Depending on where I focus the light--straight on, below, above, to the side, and how tightly I close my eyes, I can see, not just the primary colours, but all the colours of the rainbow. I am at the point where it seems I can see pixels.

The lamp I used, today, also has a rheostat on it. I found that colours will change depending on the brightness, or dimness, of the light. Moving it around in a circle, slow and/or fast, creates kaleidoscope effect.

When I gave my granddaughter the lamp to hold, it didn't take long for her to get the same effect I did. This also had the positive results of helping her feel that she was not just a subject, but and active participant in her own healing.

RED--physicality
As she held the lamp, I asked her: Can you see the red colour?

When she responded, yes, I said: Red, as I understand it, is the symbol for physical energy, strength and power--I call it the somatological factor--and this colour, filling the brain and radiating to your heart and lungs and throughout you whole circulatory system--veins and arteries-- will, automatically, help you to breathe deeply and evenly.

This will, automatically, increase the ability of your lungs, in cooperation with you heart, to absorb more and more life-giving and healing oxygen which will go, especially, to the area of your body needing healing. And you know where that area is. [I gave her time to let this sink in]

I told her: Because I know you love playing soccer, this will help you in the game. I want you to see yourself on the soccer-field. [I paused and asked her to confirm to me that this was happening]

Your oxygen-rich blood-stream is naturally making you strong all over. This will help you be a stronger and faster soccer player. As I count you are going to have three minutes of exciting play and you will breathe deeper and deeper. Start by breathing taking in a gentle breath....Now, breath out, out, out, out, as far as you can...until you really want to take a deep breath. Now you are ready for some exciting play: One minute--I paused--Two minutes--paused--Three minutes--paused. [Look, you scored! Just listen to the cheers!!!]

Now, pause, walk off the field. It is time for you to take a rest on the bench.

YELLOW--mentality
As you rest, pay attention to the light you used for the first exercise. This time, hold the light so that you can see the colour, yellow. Yellow is the symbol for information, knowledge, mental alertness and acuity. I call yellow the symbol for the psychological component. Your whole brain area is filled with light.
[Take time to let this sink in.]

This light, now filling your brain, is radiating throughout your whole nervous system. This just being aware of where you are and what is going on around you will also help you be a better soccer player. But it will also make you a better listener and a better student. The light will help you focus your attention on what you read, listen to your teachers and learn the things you need to know. Real knowledge will lead you to wisdom--the right use of knowledge.
[Meditate on this for a moment]

Now take yourself to a place where you can be by yourself and you are getting ready to have a good rest, even go into a deep sleep. It can be your room, a spot by a lake, or the ocean.

[I paused and gave her the opportunity to choose. She chose her room.]

Now look at the light, once more, close-up and with eyes closed. But this time, close your eyes tight. As I take the light away from you, what colour do you see? She responded: I see several kinds of blues, purples and even a blackness.

BLUE--spirituality
Then I said, relax, as deeply as you want to. Now let yourself be aware of yourself, your unique self. [I gave her time to think on this.]

I told her that, in my opinion, blue is the symbol of what I call the pneumatological, or spiritual component--that in which we all live and move as self-aware, or spiritual, beings. [Again I paused to give her time to think what this means to her.]

How do you feel? "I want to go to sleep..." she said, I told her that she would have a really deep and healing sleep. She slept all afternoon.

By the way, the session took place at her home. Later, her grandmother and I took her to our home where her grandmother prepared her supper.

I think everyone went to bed about an hour or so ago, while I finished this writing.

Posted by: Ignorance Is Eternal Jan 12, 2007, 07:16 PM

QUOTE(maximus242 @ Jan 10, 2007, 06:36 PM) *

Sigh*

Okay since no one else seems to be helping you and since ive done about 500 hours of self-hypnosis, I am fairly well versed in the subject. Okay, need to know a couple of things

#1 Is this your first time being hypnotised?

#2 Give me examples of what commands and changes you want to make.

#3 Do you have a tape recorder or microphone on your computer?

Answer these three things and I will type up a script for you with instructions on what to do ect.

Ive done levels of hypnosis most people dont even know exist, like DHI and Hypnotically Induced Visual Hallucinations. Sub-conscious programming is a breeze to do, you will find the more you do self hypnosis, the easier it becomes. I would say the most useful programming is overcoming fears and forgetting past faliures, with those two things properly used - the results are quite phenominal.

NLP is OKAY, but it is washed down hypnosis at best, NLP is more pre-hypnosis than hypnosis. It prepares the subject and is used to examine the way they think - basically get inside their head. A very good book that does not use hypnosis is Psycho-Cybernetics by Maxwell Maltz, its like ten bucks brand new and has been used by Olympic Athletes for decades.

If your looking to read about hypnosis, dont waste your time on those hypnosis for dummies, ect. Go to the University Library and read anything by Milton Erickson.

Whatever, answer the questions and il get a script written up for you. Im a bit busy and havent been online so it might be a day or two.

This intrigues me deeply. Would perhaps private message me the instructions if I answer those questions as well? No need for hurry.

Posted by: Lindsay Jan 12, 2007, 08:50 PM

Keep in mind IIE: The fact that we now have the PC so readily available for all to use certainly increases our ability to do much good for one another. It is for sure that if we fail to use it for good, it will be used for evil.

Edmund Burke, 1729-1797
The British statesman and philosopher, Edmund Burke, was born in Dublin, January 12, educated at a Quaker boarding school and at Trinity College, Dublin put it this way: "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." Also: "All that evil needs to succeed, in the world, is for good people to do nothing."

http://www.bartleby.com/people/Burke-Ed.html

Posted by: Ignorance Is Eternal Jan 12, 2007, 10:57 PM

QUOTE(Lindsay @ Jan 12, 2007, 08:50 PM) *

Keep in mind IIE: The fact that we now have the PC so readily available for all to use certainly increases our ability to do much good for one another. It is for sure that if we fail to use it for good, it will be used for evil.

Edmund Burke, 1729-1797
The British statesman and philosopher, Edmund Burke, was born in Dublin, January 12, educated at a Quaker boarding school and at Trinity College, Dublin put it this way: "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." Also: "All that evil needs to succeed, in the world, is for good people to do nothing."

http://www.bartleby.com/people/Burke-Ed.html

Thank you, although I'm not sure if that had any relevance whatsoever. Excluding possibly that today is the 12th..would you mind clarifying the reason behind this post?

Posted by: Lindsay Jan 13, 2007, 09:42 AM

IIE, ABOUT THE ART OF HYPNOSIS
Perhaps I should have prefaced what I wrote with the following: Hypnosis is art that, like all the arts, including the art of writing, can be used for good or evil.

Many people, no doubt because they choose to be eternally ignorant, fear hynosis of any kind. They equate it with brainwashing of the worst kind and miss how valuable it can be when used morally and ethically by people skilled in the art. I have heard religious leaders--probably unaware that they are using the very art they condemn--judge it as nothing more than a tool of the devil.

Because of this, many people, who could benefit from the positive use of the art of hypnosis fail to do so. They miss how simple it is to learn the technique; that it is ubiquitous, anyway, and easy to do.

Ironically, all leaders are hypnotists by default: Parents, teachers, clergy, political and other authority figures, under the guise of education, constantly hypnotise those willing to listen to them, from the cardle to the grave.

Having said this, my plea is: Let those of us who know something about this art be ready and willing to help any willing to listen and learn. And let us not fear to do it, in the open.

Here is a good place to start:
http://www.danielolson.com/hypnosis/hypnosis_history.html
Notice the connection between the art of hypnosis and the art of religion--perhaps the oldest human art.

Posted by: Enki Jan 13, 2007, 05:41 PM

QUOTE(Lindsay @ Jan 13, 2007, 09:42 AM) *

Having said this, my plea is: Let those of us who know something about this art be ready and willing to help any willing to listen and learn. And let us not fear to do it, in the open.



What! Do you understand what consequences mankind may face in case if those “knowledge” get spread among people?!

Some people use the technique in card games, some illusionists use similar tricks to fool people, some groups, spy agencies and secret societies use the technique to control politicians and lead wars, some use the technique to advertise products using it as a tool in aggressive marketing. So now what you suggest? The technique is a weapon. You suggest to spread weapons?


Posted by: Enki Jan 13, 2007, 05:46 PM

No one will be permitted to Hack the Matrix and question its tranquility, stability and reliability (I am sorry for utilizing cinematographic terminology).

Posted by: maximus242 Jan 13, 2007, 06:11 PM

Any form of change techniques, whether hypnosis or not, require a extensive and knowlegable body behind them. Writting scripts is not so much a formula as it is a individual approach to tackle specific goals for each person.

Milton Erickson also felt hypnosis was incredibly powerful and should be banned from the grasp of the general public.

In self-hypnosis, time is especially required for the beginner, 30 minutes is a resonable time to expect - each person is diffrent though and some first time subjects take 5 minutes, others take an hour.

Hypnotism is just one of many powerful techniques to change a person. Hypnosis is fairly average at its most basic level, however when one has an experienced subject and knows a great deal about hypnosis, the results are spectacular.

Enki your mislabelling hypnosis with other things like subliminal advertising.

Posted by: Lindsay Jan 13, 2007, 07:28 PM

I strongly suspect that Enki is being a bit facetious. I would be very surprised if he expects us to take his flurry of sarcasm seriously. smile.gif If you are serious Enki, make your case and let's dialogue.

By the way, until the 1980's, in the province of Ontario, it was illegal for anyone, except MDs to use hypnosis. It didn't matter how much, if any, psychological, or pneumatological understanding MD's had, they were attomatically qualified, while those really skilled in the art were forbidden.

A group of us got busy and called for a public inquiry as to whether or not the law really served the public good. The result was that things got changed--IMO, for the better--and the old law, which had been concocted by a certain power-seeking few who had their own agenda, was scrapped. Most medical doctors supported the findings of inquiry.

Posted by: Lindsay Jan 13, 2007, 07:57 PM

Here is some good and basic information:
http://www.danielolson.com/hypnosis/how_hypnosis_works.html

Posted by: Enki Jan 14, 2007, 09:02 PM

Thank you Maximus242 for quoting Milton Erickson, his warning is apt to place.

And even such a humble man as I not well unaware of so many arts discern subliminal advertising of hypnosis and understand the difference quite well, I guess, hope so.

Posted by: Enki Jan 14, 2007, 09:28 PM

QUOTE(Lindsay @ Jan 13, 2007, 07:28 PM) *

I strongly suspect that Enki is being a bit facetious. I would be very surprised if he expects us to take his flurry of sarcasm seriously. smile.gif If you are serious Enki, make your case and let's dialogue.


Really, indeed, who is wise enough to take words of an Enki seriously, I do wonder.
How could I imagine that members of such a prominent World Meditating Community hardly can take serious the flurry of sarcasm of such a secondary creature like me.

But if to speak seriously, I am ready to dialogue and argue over this important topic. I am strongly convinced that the technique must not be spread and popularized among men! Only few, with high moral values should be admitted to such knowledge (if such exist as organized science).

Let me quote a passage from Lord Bacon’s New Atlantis, I think it will be a nice beginning of our dialog:
“But we do hate all impostures and lies, insomuch as we have severely forbidden it to all our fellows, under pain of ignominy and fines, that they do not show any natural work or thing adorned or swelling, but only pure as it is, and without all affectation of strangeness.
These are, my son, the riches of Salomon's House.”

Now Mr. Lindsay, be so kind, explain to me this statement of yours “Having said this, my plea is: Let those of us who know something about this art be ready and willing to help any willing to listen and learn. And let us not fear to do it, in the open.”

Why people should know that? You very well, as far as I guess, know that it can be used as a weapon. Do you suggest to spread weapons?

And what about non-proliferation treaties?

Posted by: Enki Jan 14, 2007, 09:43 PM

You know, God dislikes when human Freedom of Will is questioned. The spreading of knowledge which facilitate one group of people to question Freedom of Will of the other group of people should be considered very negatively by the God. Don't you think so? Don't you think that those who know, should apply some kind of self-censorship?

Harmoniously develop human beings should have freedom of choice. If the number of people able to use sophisticated hypnosis techniques will increase in the world, then there will be great problems with the Freedom of Will worldwide.

E.g. Mr. Hitler and Comrade Stalin were of those who must not be admitted to such knowledge, but unfortunately that happened and the consequences were very dramatic. Besides, definitely, the perpetrators in Hamburg who organized 9/11, definitely had used quite sophisticated techniques to incline those Arab boys to commit that madness and crush the Two Towers and rush into Pentagon. It is not recommended to play with the Ring of the Power. Don't you think so?

Posted by: Lindsay Jan 15, 2007, 10:38 AM

Max, you write:

QUOTE
Milton Erickson also felt hypnosis was incredibly powerful and should be banned from the grasp of the general public.
I am not doubting you, but do you have the source for this quote? I would love to know the context in which this was said.

It amazes me to hear this. If it is true that he actually thought that this was a wise thing to do, it amazes me to hear that a man as wise a Erickson thought that it is okay to ban the spreading of such useful information.

Also, I am amazed to think that he even thought it possible. Perhaps it could be done under Nazism, Communism, and Islamism; but surely not in "land of the free and the home of the brave" and the land of your Canadian cousins. Can you imagine the uproar there would have been had the originators of the Internet tried to push through a law banning the use of the PC except by a special and elite few at the top?

If ME really meant what you say he said, why would his papers give detailed instructions as to how to do Ericksonian hypnosis.

By they way, as I read ME, he was more of an advocate of what I call pneumatherapy--the use of an hypnotic technique without the manipulative hocus pocus of stage hypnosis. He refused to use this master/subject model on people who came to him. He saw hypnotherapy as a cooperative and a collaborative process between therapist and the one seeking help. This is made perfectly clear in his paper: DEEP HYPNOSIS AND ITS INDUCTION--general considerations, to which I will refer, later.

Perhaps what really concerned Milton Erickson was the use of hypnosis as a manipulative tool by unscrupulous Svengali types.
===========================================================================
The word svengali refers to a person who completely dominates and controls another, usually for selfish or sinister motives. It is a literary allusion to the character Svengali. He was a musician and a hypnotist in the George du Maurier novel, Trilby--the heroine of the story (1894). The great John Barrymore and Marian Marsh stared in the 1931 movie based on the novel.

IT HAPPENS MORE OFTEN THAN WE IMAGINE
This kind of manipulation goes on all the time. Currently, the North America media is filled with the story of a male youth, Shawn Hornbeck, missing since 2002.

Recently, now 15, he was rescued--he was discovered quite by accident--after being held in captivity, not far from where he was kidnapped. He was forced to live with an older male who used what a psychologist described as "powerful psychological chains"--as effective as physical ropes on those who "believe" in what they are told. He feared for his life if he told anyone that where he was forced to live was not his home. Quite a story, but it shows the power that the words of one can have over the life of another who "chooses", for whatever reason, to believe what he is told.

http://www.hypnotism.org/Svengali.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Svengali

Posted by: Enki Jan 15, 2007, 11:59 AM

But internet is a free source Lindsay. Anybody can read it.
I suggest to use ontology complicated enough to shield possible data percolation. How do you look at that suggestion?

Posted by: simon Jan 16, 2007, 03:57 AM

The information is already out there a la internet, surely now is a time to share and advise rather than withhold for the fear that the "bad" guys who already have the information, are listening for tips.

Posted by: Enki Jan 16, 2007, 10:42 AM

For your information quite many things are scattered in a proper way for special purposes. Keys always are scattered. But if a group of smart people will start to collect them in one place the consequences can be very dramatic.

I strongly insist on my point. It is awesome to imagine what will happen if Brain Meta start to attract young Harry Potters!

A young boy not having proper mentor cannot be admitted to such art. It is unwritten rule of intelligent people.

You see Lindsay avoids dialog because he quite well knows that I am right in this particular case. He probably was on high spirit at his birthday and all-encompassing love to all living beings inclined him to promote excessive freedom for all. smile.gif laugh.gif (I am sorry in advance it is a joke)

Posted by: simon Jan 16, 2007, 11:10 AM

so mentor

Posted by: Enki Jan 16, 2007, 12:36 PM

laugh.gif

Posted by: Lindsay Jan 18, 2007, 07:21 AM

QUOTE(Enki @ Jan 16, 2007, 12:36 PM) *

laugh.gif Lindsay avoids dialog...
Now, that really is a joke. laugh.gif

Posted by: Enki Jan 18, 2007, 08:42 AM

wink.gif

Posted by: maximus242 Jan 18, 2007, 02:04 PM

QUOTE(Lindsay @ Jan 15, 2007, 11:38 AM) *

Max, you write:
QUOTE
Milton Erickson also felt hypnosis was incredibly powerful and should be banned from the grasp of the general public.
I am not doubting you, but do you have the source for this quote? I would love to know the context in which this was said.

It amazes me to hear this. If it is true that he actually thought that this was a wise thing to do, it amazes me to hear that a man as wise a Erickson thought that it is okay to ban the spreading of such useful information.


Um there is a society of hypnotists founded by Milton Erickson, it is exclusive only to Doctors - Mainly Psychiatrists and Psychologists, The book I read it in was a collection of papers by Milton Erickson, they are in four volumes and can be found at a University Library. However in virtually all of his books they discuss the need to ban hypnosis from the general public because it is far to powerful. Milton also had a severe distaste for Stage Hypnotists, most are poorely trained and some have caused back problems that lasted 20 years.

Most people only understand a tiny amount about the incredibly vast subject of hypnosis and a tiny amount of information can be very dangerous to a persons health and mental well being.

I wish I could remember the name of the society Lindsay but they were founded on the belief that hypnosis should remain with qualified professionals. Milton believed that hypnosis should be carried out by professionals and not layman. Milton changed hypnosis drastically, it went from being a parlor trick to being a tool used for health care.

I believe if people took the time to learn hypnosis througouly, they would be amazed at how much it has to offer. Sometimes you dont need hypnosis at all.

Milton was afraid that people would use hypnosis to control people (like in cults) and advertisers would use it to manipulate the country. This was his real concern, using hypnosis for evil purposes.

Posted by: Gahan Jan 18, 2007, 05:55 PM

QUOTE(maximus242 @ Jan 18, 2007, 02:04 PM) *

QUOTE(Lindsay @ Jan 15, 2007, 11:38 AM) *

Max, you write:
QUOTE
Milton Erickson also felt hypnosis was incredibly powerful and should be banned from the grasp of the general public.
I am not doubting you, but do you have the source for this quote? I would love to know the context in which this was said.

It amazes me to hear this. If it is true that he actually thought that this was a wise thing to do, it amazes me to hear that a man as wise a Erickson thought that it is okay to ban the spreading of such useful information.


Um there is a society of hypnotists founded by Milton Erickson, it is exclusive only to Doctors - Mainly Psychiatrists and Psychologists, The book I read it in was a collection of papers by Milton Erickson, they are in four volumes and can be found at a University Library. However in virtually all of his books they discuss the need to ban hypnosis from the general public because it is far to powerful. Milton also had a severe distaste for Stage Hypnotists, most are poorely trained and some have caused back problems that lasted 20 years.

Most people only understand a tiny amount about the incredibly vast subject of hypnosis and a tiny amount of information can be very dangerous to a persons health and mental well being.

I wish I could remember the name of the society Lindsay but they were founded on the belief that hypnosis should remain with qualified professionals. Milton believed that hypnosis should be carried out by professionals and not layman. Milton changed hypnosis drastically, it went from being a parlor trick to being a tool used for health care.

I believe if people took the time to learn hypnosis througouly, they would be amazed at how much it has to offer. Sometimes you dont need hypnosis at all.

Milton was afraid that people would use hypnosis to control people (like in cults) and advertisers would use it to manipulate the country. This was his real concern, using hypnosis for evil purposes.


Not all of us have access to a university library.

Posted by: Lindsay Jan 18, 2007, 09:55 PM

Max

QUOTE
Milton changed hypnosis drastically, it went from being a parlor trick to being a tool used for health care....Milton also had a severe distaste for Stage Hypnotists, most are poorely trained and some have caused back problems that lasted 20 years.
Many philosophers have warned against the danger of ignorance. A small amount of knowledge can cause people to think they are more expert than they really are. Alexander Pope (1688 - 1744) in An Essay on Criticism, 1709 he wrote:

"A little learning is a dangerous thing; drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: there shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, and drinking largely sobers us again."

Roger Bacon also said that a "little knowledge can be a dangerous thing..." But if you read the full quote he went on to say that a depth of knowledge can be a wonderful thing."

This is why I am also concerned about those who conspire to cover up knowledge.

BEWARE OF OBSCURANTISM
I am not all that tough on people who play around with knowledge in a child-like way. Sometimes playing around with the little knowledge we have can help us come up with some very useful discoveries. Has anyone ever stopped to consider how many of the world's great invention began as "toys", in one form or another? Look what happened when we began to play around with wheels and kites, and firecrackers.

By the way, I did my first indepth studies in hypnosis under a qualified mentor in 1965, The Rev. Canon Joseph Wittkofski, then director of the Braid Institute, Near Pitsburgh, USA, devoted to promoting knowledge about hypnotism.

Interestingly, Dr. James Braid, for whom the cl;inic was names, learned the art of hypnosis from a stage hypnotist, who called it mesmerism. Mesmer called it animal magnetism. Braid, using his knowledge of Greek, mis-named it--he later admitted this--'hypnosis' (the Greek) for sleep. He tried to change it to 'monoideism'--the ability to focus the mind on one idea, not unlike meditation.

THE REAL NEED IS FOR US TO WAKE UP
IMO, entering the trance state, properly understood, is not about going to sleep; it is about becoming more and more AWAKE. Maybe we should call it wakeupotism.

I prefer to call it 'pneumatherapy'--waking up our spiritual nature and power. This is bound to help heal the mind and the body. People who are pneumatologically ill will never become physically (somatically) and psychologically (mentally) whole, IMO.

And pneumatologically well people are the kind who can put up with all kinds of physical and mental illness and still do great things in life. History is filled with stories of people who overcame great physical and mental handicaps and went on to do great things in life, because they had spirits. For example, Edison, Helen Keller, Beethoven, Mozart to name a few.

BTW, Canon Wittkofski, mentioned above, supervised my studies and practice of hypnosis over an extensive course in the subject. Therefore, I consider myself a qualified professional. Towards the end of his life, Canon Wittkofski saw the value of calling the art 'pneumatology/pneumatherapy'--to get away from the hocus pocus connected with hypnosis.

If anyone is interested, I am quite willing to help others learn this art, if they agree to take the proper--and they are not that complex--precautions. The main one is: Teach students that the trance state is always self-induced. Teachers are not masters, and students are not subjects.

Posted by: Enki Jan 19, 2007, 09:48 AM

QUOTE(Lindsay @ Jan 18, 2007, 09:55 PM) *

If anyone is interested, I am quite willing to help others learn this art, if they agree to take the proper--and they are not that complex--precautions. The main one is: Teach students that the trance state is always self-induced. Teachers are not masters, and students are not subjects.


Dear Mr. Lindsay,

I really respect you and it is always very interesting and a great pleasure to communicate with you, indeed. I will highly appreciate if you answer on one question:

"Are you going to do that online for anonymous users of this very forum willing to learn this art?"

With best wishes,
Yours Enki

Posted by: Lindsay Jan 19, 2007, 11:22 AM

Enki, I think of most posters here as people I do not really know---at least I can't say that I really know them smile.gif As one of them, what would you advise? And this is a serious question.

BTW, whether I know people or not, would there be anything really "dangerous" about helping anyone--known and unknown--to WAKE UP?

What I have in mind is actually speaking to people. BTW, I just installed SKYPE and am about to test it.

Posted by: maximus242 Jan 19, 2007, 01:35 PM

QUOTE(Lindsay @ Jan 18, 2007, 10:55 PM) *

Max
QUOTE
Milton changed hypnosis drastically, it went from being a parlor trick to being a tool used for health care....Milton also had a severe distaste for Stage Hypnotists, most are poorely trained and some have caused back problems that lasted 20 years.
Many philosophers have warned against the danger of ignorance. A small amount of knowledge can cause people to think they are more expert than they really are. Alexander Pope (1688 - 1744) in An Essay on Criticism, 1709 he wrote:

"A little learning is a dangerous thing; drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring: there shallow draughts intoxicate the brain, and drinking largely sobers us again."

Roger Bacon also said that a "little knowledge can be a dangerous thing..." But if you read the full quote he went on to say that a depth of knowledge can be a wonderful thing."

This is why I am also concerned about those who conspire to cover up knowledge.

BEWARE OF OBSCURANTISM
I am not all that tough on people who play around with knowledge in a child-like way. Sometimes playing around with the little knowledge we have can help us come up with some very useful discoveries. Has anyone ever stopped to consider how many of the world's great invention began as "toys", in one form or another? Look what happened when we began to play around with wheels and kites, and firecrackers.

By the way, I did my first indepth studies in hypnosis under a qualified mentor in 1965, The Rev. Canon Joseph Wittkofski, then director of the Braid Institute, Near Pitsburgh, USA, devoted to promoting knowledge about hypnotism.

Interestingly, Dr. James Braid, for whom the cl;inic was names, learned the art of hypnosis from a stage hypnotist, who called it mesmerism. Mesmer called it animal magnetism. Braid, using his knowledge of Greek, mis-named it--he later admitted this--'hypnosis' (the Greek) for sleep. He tried to change it to 'monoideism'--the ability to focus the mind on one idea, not unlike meditation.

THE REAL NEED IS FOR US TO WAKE UP
IMO, entering the trance state, properly understood, is not about going to sleep; it is about becoming more and more AWAKE. Maybe we should call it wakeupotism.

I prefer to call it 'pneumatherapy'--waking up our spiritual nature and power. This is bound to help heal the mind and the body. People who are pneumatologically ill will never become physically (somatically) and psychologically (mentally) whole, IMO.

And pneumatologically well people are the kind who can put up with all kinds of physical and mental illness and still do great things in life. History is filled with stories of people who overcame great physical and mental handicaps and went on to do great things in life, because they had spirits. For example, Edison, Helen Keller, Beethoven, Mozart to name a few.

BTW, Canon Wittkofski, mentioned above, supervised my studies and practice of hypnosis over an extensive course in the subject. Therefore, I consider myself a qualified professional. Towards the end of his life, Canon Wittkofski saw the value of calling the art 'pneumatology/pneumatherapy'--to get away from the hocus pocus connected with hypnosis.

If anyone is interested, I am quite willing to help others learn this art, if they agree to take the proper--and they are not that complex--precautions. The main one is: Teach students that the trance state is always self-induced. Teachers are not masters, and students are not subjects.


This all seemed a rather pointless statement. Lindsay do you know about the diffrent physical effects that occur based on hypnosis?

Besides, all communication is hypnosis. Everyone enters and exits hypnosis daily, they dont need to be taught anything, only realize they can already do hypnosis.. seeing as they do it every day.

Things like daydreaming are actually hypnosis. A good visual story can easily induce hypnosis, its rediculously easy actually, let me explain the steps in learning hypnosis.

- Basic Theory and First Hypnotic Induction
- Learning and expermineting diffrent induction techniques
- Exploring the perspective limits in hypnosis
- Expanding the experiments done while under hypnosis
- Achieving deeper states of hypnosis
- Slowly working up the ability to do more complex exercises
- Achieving deep hypnosis and living through the guided imagry
- Conducting perspective and sensory alterations
- Inducing hallucinations
- Changing Perceptions at will
- *This is where most people see the final limit of hypnosis, there wrong, most people never make it close to this point*
- Cell to sub-conscious communication
- Altering Body, starting at the cellular level
- Causing changes in reaction, time perception, muscle structure and whatnot
- Enhanced Neurological control

I think you get the point

You move from hypnosis to NLP to DHI to Autogenic Training.

Milton Erickson, being the incredible man he is, was actually able to help a 19 year old girl grow breats after a lifetime of failure using hormones.. Milton Erickson stepped in and only using his words and some exercises, caused the girl to change her body.

Very few people know the extent you can take hypnosis to. You can enlarge the size of your blood vessels, cause yourself to become deathly ill or pump adrenaline to your muscles to cause a surge of super human strength.

Milton knew how powerful hypnosis really was, he could cause the mind to think at super speeds - faster than the most advanced computers (altering time perception *hard to do, need a very experienced subject*)

Lindsay, I think you want to distrubute hypnosis to the public because you dont fully realize what hypnosis is capable of, I suggest you read the MKULTRA files before doing so.

Posted by: Lindsay Jan 19, 2007, 04:03 PM

Max, until we dialogue enough for me to really understand the point you are trying to make, we will have to put things on hold, for now.

IMHO, knowledge is there for all who want to know.

Posted by: Enki Jan 19, 2007, 11:54 PM

QUOTE(Lindsay @ Jan 19, 2007, 11:22 AM) *

Enki, I think of most posters here as people I do not really know---at least I can't say that I really know them smile.gif As one of them, what would you advise? And this is a serious question.


It is natural and normal that people prefer to communicate anonymously, that philosophy is implanted into all Forums’ associated software. Some like to communicate openly, but anyway, even in that case it is hard to say that we know each other well. Up to know it is a mystery for me why such an intelligent and old person as Rick is still is an atheist, I initiated dialog related with the Inborn ideas of Descartes and Leibnitz’s fontanel egg but I still do not understand his phylosophy well, anyway, or why RTB was so unfriendly to Cheshire cat before, whatsoever.

I advise the following: if you wish to teach, then teach the art to those whom you know in person. Definitly internet provides alluring opportunity of meeting and talking with different people but open exchange of those arts may endanger the reliability of social institutions, all knowledge have multiple applications. People are such creatures that in state of anger may apply any art in quite specific ways. But nonetheless, I guess that it is possible to have online community of interesting people scattered and sleeping all around the world. smile.gif Community organizing conferences world wide, helping to find and help each other after so many years, and chartering open international societies promulgating Wisdom and Knowledge and Freedom among nations. E.g. by building a network of beautiful, cozy libraries worldwide which by grace of their old style architecture will attract those who want to learn. As a start such libraries can be chartered online. It is not a crime to visit a library online and read books from the shelves ornamented in nice, reach, old manner. If some time be spent, a good graphics be created and a beautiful philosophy of online libraries be grown and proper books be put on shelves in proper order in proper virtual rooms where proper sculptures and paintings will look at visitors of the rooms, then those who seek will find what they look for and one day they will find and knock the door of the proper building.

QUOTE(Lindsay @ Jan 19, 2007, 11:22 AM) *
BTW, whether I know people or not, would there be anything really "dangerous" about helping anyone--known and unknown--to WAKE UP?


I think that such danger exists. You never know who can reemerge on the second face of two-faced Januses during utilization of the art as a byproduct of the peaceful activities. Just reliability issues and Common Sense. Some children always will strive to open unknown closed doors to find out what is over there, children should be guided.

QUOTE(Lindsay @ Jan 19, 2007, 11:22 AM) *
What I have in mind is actually speaking to people. BTW, I just installed SKYPE and am about to test it.


I am just expressing my opinion. And I talk to people too. E.g. I tried online to explain something to some unthankful Kids.
I have no doubt that you are wise enough and know what to talk about. Many of my friends use Skype as well, but I do not use it, because there are quite many extremely curious, morally unhealthy and aggressively ignorant people in civil services of far away countries...

Posted by: Lindsay Jan 20, 2007, 05:23 AM

Enki, you wrote:

QUOTE
I am just expressing my opinion. And I talk to people too. E.g. I tried online to explain something to some unthankful Kids.
Go on. Tell us what happened....?

Posted by: Lindsay Jan 20, 2007, 06:41 AM

You keep talking about danger

QUOTE
I think that such danger exists.

Well, to parody the great words of the statesman, William Bourke: All that we need do to be "safe" is nothing. But what kind of safety is that?

And here's another thought: All that ignorance needs to succeed in the world is for knowledgeable people to say nothing.

Posted by: Enki Jan 20, 2007, 08:07 AM

QUOTE(Lindsay @ Jan 20, 2007, 05:23 AM) *

Enki, you wrote:
QUOTE
I am just expressing my opinion. And I talk to people too. E.g. I tried online to explain something to some unthankful Kids.
Go on. Tell us what happened....?


I am sorry, but that story will stay in the unwritten chapters of human history.

Posted by: Enki Jan 20, 2007, 08:11 AM

QUOTE(Lindsay @ Jan 20, 2007, 06:41 AM) *

You keep talking about danger
QUOTE
I think that such danger exists.

Well, to parody the great words of the statesman, William Bourke: All that we need do to be "safe" is nothing. But what kind of safety is that?

And here's another thought: All that ignorance needs to succeed in the world is for knowledgeable people to say nothing.


I agree, knowledgeable people always should say something, though in some countries it is quite unsafe to do so. But does that relate to specific knowledge spreading? I guess not. You are mixing something or I do not understand you well.

Posted by: maximus242 Jan 20, 2007, 10:48 AM

I think morpheus put it best as "Some people arent ready to leave the matrix, waking them up could be dangerous"

Posted by: Joesus Jan 20, 2007, 10:56 AM

QUOTE
And here's another thought: All that ignorance needs to succeed in the world is for knowledgeable people to say nothing.


I had a thought once...


Someone else had a thought once too, " Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you."

The person who said that was awake and knew the value of withholding knowledge from those that would only use it to strengthen the domain of the ego.

As a pneumatherapist/preacher/hypnotherapist/Father/Unitheist/......... or in other words as an ego who defines himself as knowledge/experience accumulated equaling the sum total of God are you running towards something or away from something?

Any fanatic who wishes to save the world from the demons he sees and experiences assumes those demons are everyones demons. Every fanatic who thinks he realizes Paradise thinks his paradise is everyone elses paradise.

The world is a simple reflection of ones own inner beliefs and those that are drawn toward you are for your awakening.
Those that follow the awakened person are not broken but are vestiges of a world created for awakening, a stage forever set for players destined to play a role in accord with their own desire and free will.
In Sanskrit there is a word, "Leshavidya" The last remains of ignorance. It is the remaining scenes played out when the absolute is experienced both inside and outside, when Unity of Spirit is experienced inside and outside in the manifest reality, when one awakens to the reality or experience of Union with God. The body becomes one with spirit above and beyond the intellects reasoning or accumulation of knowledge used to prop up the ego in its belief in its self and its identity with its knowledge accumulated in the personal experience.
When that knowledge is surrendered back to the absolute then omniscience begins to flow from the spirit into the manifest organism. The awakened mind then speaks from the mind of God.

This was why Jesus and other masters didn't carry file folders, weblinks, phd certificates, bibliographies or biographies to convince the sleeping ego they were awake and that they were here to awaken the sleeping ego.

The universe abounds in unlimited examples and knowledge for those who seek it. We as the manifestation of awakening souls draw to us automatically what we need and desire and so those who are seeking to repair the broken souls do not know the mechanics of the universe and are lost in their own minds illusions of reality created by the ego and its limited perception of its self and its own fabricated greatness or awakening.

To the awakened master there is no doing, there is only surrender to the flow of what has been designed above and beyond the concepts of the sleeping ego and its knowledge created from personality and ego logic, or personal experience.
The universe is infinitely larger than the collections of a few minds assembled together singularly attempting to display their reasoning and assumptions of reality.


Posted by: Lindsay Jan 20, 2007, 11:08 AM

QUOTE(maximus242 @ Jan 20, 2007, 10:48 AM) *

I think morpheus put it best as "Some people arent ready to leave the matrix, waking them up could be dangerous"
Fear not. I have the strong feeling that those who choose to stay asleep, are very clever at finding the opiates, including certain mind-numbing religions, they need to assist them. laugh.gif

The corollary of this is: Those who need to and want to WAKE UP are clever enough not to let the obscurants stop them. Look what happened to that "sleeping giant, China".

Posted by: maximus242 Jan 20, 2007, 11:14 AM

QUOTE(Joesus @ Jan 20, 2007, 11:56 AM) *

QUOTE
And here's another thought: All that ignorance needs to succeed in the world is for knowledgeable people to say nothing.


I had a thought once...


Someone else had a thought once too, " Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you."

The person who said that was awake and knew the value of withholding knowledge from those that would only use it to strengthen the domain of the ego.

As a pneumatherapist/preacher/hypnotherapist/Father/Unitheist/......... or in other words as an ego who defines himself as knowledge/experience accumulated equaling the sum total of God are you running towards something or away from something?

Any fanatic who wishes to save the world from the demons he sees and experiences assumes those demons are everyones demons. Every fanatic who thinks he realizes Paradise thinks his paradise is everyone elses paradise.

The world is a simple reflection of ones own inner beliefs and those that are drawn toward you are for your awakening.
Those that follow the awakened person are not broken but are vestiges of a world created for awakening, a stage forever set for players destined to play a role in accord with their own desire and free will.
In Sanskrit there is a word, "Leshavidya" The last remains of ignorance. It is the remaining scenes played out when the absolute is experienced both inside and outside, when Unity of Spirit is experienced inside and outside in the manifest reality, when one awakens to the reality or experience of Union with God. The body becomes one with spirit above and beyond the intellects reasoning or accumulation of knowledge used to prop up the ego in its belief in its self and its identity with its knowledge accumulated in the personal experience.
When that knowledge is surrendered back to the absolute then omniscience begins to flow from the spirit into the manifest organism. The awakened mind then speaks from the mind of God.

This was why Jesus and other masters didn't carry file folders, weblinks, phd certificates, bibliographies or biographies to convince the sleeping ego they were awake and that they were here to awaken the sleeping ego.

The universe abounds in unlimited examples and knowledge for those who seek it. We as the manifestation of awakening souls draw to us automatically what we need and desire and so those who are seeking to repair the broken souls do not know the mechanics of the universe and are lost in their own minds illusions of reality created by the ego and its limited perception of its self and its own fabricated greatness or awakening.

To the awakened master there is no doing, there is only surrender to the flow of what has been designed above and beyond the concepts of the sleeping ego and its knowledge created from personality and ego logic, or personal experience.
The universe is infinitely larger than the collections of a few minds assembled together singularly attempting to display their reasoning and assumptions of reality.


Intresting thoughts Joesus, though the enlightened by god part could be replaced with enlightened by life. It is true in todays society we often seek out forms of approval and justification from society.

Posted by: Joesus Jan 20, 2007, 11:55 AM

But those external forms of validation are only temporary.
If one believes that life exists only within the terms of the physical world then one will not open themselves to anything beyond those terms of definition.

Authority then is interpreted as the majority.

God is not Democratic.

Posted by: Lindsay Jan 20, 2007, 12:01 PM

BTW, "egotist" that I am, I post in more than one forum. I have noticed that in every forum where I post my views and opinions they always attract some strong detractors who often express their outrage. I love it, when this happens. Doesn't every writer?

The following is one small example. It is found in the topic, started by another poster, Tim, who starts a lot a topics and then says nothing. Interesting. The title is "Evidence for God"

After I made my usual appeal for people to be open to new words and ideas and the value of open-ended dialogue, this is what followed, from a poster with the appropriate initials DAM.
==================================================
Revlgk troll wrote:
"I am a great believer in the art of dialoguing" [quoting me]

Dialoguing is NOT a word. It is just more new-age woo-woo imbecility. And what you are posting is not science. [without one shred of evidence]

Rose ... please kill this thread ... all of it ... without mercy. This isn't science. This isn't even "not-quite science." This is a malignant troll.
===========================================
[And there was much more. However, this popular thread, with a large and growing number of clicks, is still there. I look forward to getting DAMed, often. My suggestion is--unless there is real substance--keep it brief, and impersonal--focuss on what I write, not on me.
============================================
Recently, to make the point that even scientists are interested in spirituality, and in talking how science and religion can work together, I wrote as follows:

THE GREAT INVENTOR AND GENIUS, NICOLA TESLA
I forgot to mention the work of Nicola Tesla--the son of a Serbian Christian Orthodox priest.
http://www.pbs.org/tesla/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla

He was a highly spiritual person, but not being a narrow Orthodox Christian, he struggled with the rather narrow idea of God as taught by his religion.

Keep in mind that polytheism, and later, monotheism, came about when even the wisest people believed the earth was a flat disc with heaven above and hell below. We need not blame them for this, if they really believed in a flat earth, but surely when the Christian monk, Copernicus brought new knowledge to the west he should have been honored, not censored and threatened with death by the knowledge Luddites? For over a hundred years knowledge was held back by the obscurants.

OBSCURANTISM
Ignorance is one thing, but willful ignorance, obscurantism--the active opposition to progress and and the spread of knowledge, is something else. It is, IMHO, a great evil.

COSMOTHEISM
Back to Tesla, interestingly, he finally came to the conclusion that what is needed is a combination of Christianity and Buddhism. Interestingly, Buddhists are non-theists. I think of them as cosmotheists. Yes, new ideas need new words.

BTW, Christianity is already a mixture of Judaism and Christianity. I would even add the positive forms of Islam, Sikhism and Brahmanism to the mix. IMHO, in all this orthopraxy is more important than orthodoxy.

JESUS ADVOCATED ORTHOPRAXY. That is he called us to loving actions, deeds not just creeds--follow me, he said. Perhaps this is why he never wrote a book. Books tend to make us fixed-position thinkers--" IT'S IN THE BOOK!!!! (BTW, I am not opposed to felxible creeds, nor books.)

He told stories, or parables, which are stories of actions. His parable of the Good Samaritan--who, BTW, was not a Jew--in Luke 10 is about orthopraxy. I love the last sentence of his teaching: "GO then, and DO the same!"

THAT ALL MAY BE ONE
The same kind of teaching is found in John 10 and 17:20-26. His basic prayer is that "all may be one"--he called on all humanity to act as one.

The over-all philosophical term for this approach is, pragmatism--the doing of that which is morally valuable and good--the kind that was advocated by the great Christian philosopher/psychologist William James, of Harvard.

One final thought: "The secret of true unity is the love of variety." Does anyone know who said it?
I am waiting for some DAM comments. smile.gif

Posted by: Joesus Jan 20, 2007, 12:01 PM

QUOTE
The corollary of this is: Those who need to and want to WAKE UP are clever enough not to let the obscurants stop them. Look what happened to that "sleeping giant, China".

Speaking in terms of waking up, as in the soul/mind awakening to its Self awareness this analogy doesn't fit.

Posted by: Joesus Jan 20, 2007, 12:06 PM

QUOTE
BTW, "egotist" that I am, I post in more than one forum. I have noticed that in every forum where I post my views and opinions they always attract some strong detractors who often express their outrage. I love it, when this happens. Doesn't every writer?

Yes those that need something from others feed off of the attention.

QUOTE
The following is one small example. It is found in the topic, started by another poster, Tim, who starts a lot a topics and then says nothing. Interesting. The title is "Evidence for God"

After I made my usual appeal for people to be open to new words and ideas and the value of open-ended dialogue, this is what followed, from a poster with the appropriate initials DAM.
==================================================
Revlgk troll wrote:
"I am a great believer in the art of dialoguing" [quoting me]

Dialoguing is NOT a word. It is just more new-age woo-woo imbecility. And what you are posting is not science. [without one shred of evidence]

Rose ... please kill this thread ... all of it ... without mercy. This isn't science. This isn't even "not-quite science." This is a malignant troll.
===========================================
[And there was much more. However, this popular thread, with a large and growing number of clicks, is still there. I look forward to getting DAMed, often. My suggestion is--unless there is real substance--keep it brief, and impersonal--focuss on what I write, not on me.
============================================
Recently, to make the point that even scientists are interested in spirituality, and in talking how science and religion can work together, I wrote as follows:

THE GREAT INVENTOR AND GENIUS, NICOLA TESLA
I forgot to mention the work of Nicola Tesla--the son of a Serbian Christian Orthodox priest.
http://www.pbs.org/tesla/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla

He was a highly spiritual person, but not being a narrow Orthodox Christian, he struggled with the rather narrow idea of God as taught by his religion.

Keep in mind that polytheism, and later, monotheism, came about when even the wisest people believed the earth was a flat disc with heaven above and hell below. We need not blame them for this, if they really believed in a flat earth, but surely when the Christian monk, Copernicus brought new knowledge to the west he should have been honored, not censored and threatened with death by the knowledge Luddites? For over a hundred years knowledge was held back by the obscurants.

OBSCURANTISM
Ignorance is one thing, but willful ignorance, obscurantism--the active opposition to progress and and the spread of knowledge, is something else. It is, IMHO, a great evil.

COSMOTHEISM
Back to Tesla, interestingly, he finally came to the conclusion that what is needed is a combination of Christianity and Buddhism. Interestingly, Buddhists are non-theists. I think of them as cosmotheists. Yes, new ideas need new words.

BTW, Christianity is already a mixture of Judaism and Christianity. I would even add the positive forms of Islam, Sikhism and Brahmanism to the mix. IMHO, in all this orthopraxy is more important than orthodoxy.

JESUS ADVOCATED ORTHOPRAXY. That is he called us to loving actions, deeds not just creeds--follow me, he said. Perhaps this is why he never wrote a book. Books tend to make us fixed-position thinkers--" IT'S IN THE BOOK!!!! (BTW, I am not opposed to felxible creeds, nor books.)

He told stories, or parables, which are stories of actions. His parable of the Good Samaritan--who, BTW, was not a Jew--in Luke 10 is about orthopraxy. I love the last sentence of his teaching: "GO then, and DO the same!"

THAT ALL MAY BE ONE
The same kind of teaching is found in John 10 and 17:20-26. His basic prayer is that "all may be one"--he called on all humanity to act as one.

The over-all philosophical term for this approach is, pragmatism--the doing of that which is morally valuable and good--the kind that was advocated by the great Christian philosopher/psychologist William James, of Harvard.

One final thought: "The secret of true unity is the love of variety." Does anyone know who said it?
I am waiting for some DAM comments.


It's all about "YOU". The egoist needs validation from the outside and feeds off of attention.

Posted by: Lindsay Jan 20, 2007, 12:30 PM

Enki, et al: I trust you will understand me when I write as follows:
I find no value in dialoguing with posters who have so little of substance to say that they have to quote all of what IIIIIIII write, when they respond. laugh.gif

I want people to discuss the message. If anyone really wants to talk to me and about me--and I have had a long and interesting life--Let's do it in the "Introduce Yourself" section.

There, anyone may ask any question you want. Maybe I will go there and tell everyone about my love life, etc. It was all fun, and still is. And I am serious smile.gif

Posted by: maximus242 Jan 20, 2007, 01:04 PM

People are always most intrested in themselves, want proof? Look at a group photo with you in the group, first person you will look at is yourself.

This is basic human psychology. I do not see this God as an authority unless I choose to give it the power to be one.

Posted by: Enki Jan 20, 2007, 01:12 PM

QUOTE(maximus242 @ Jan 20, 2007, 10:48 AM) *

I think morpheus put it best as "Some people arent ready to leave the matrix, waking them up could be dangerous"


You see how wise morpheus can be sometimes. smile.gif

Posted by: Enki Jan 20, 2007, 01:19 PM

QUOTE(Joesus @ Jan 20, 2007, 11:55 AM) *

God is not Democratic.


You want to say Jeosus, that the Great Old Democrat is not a Democrat, possibly you prefer German and not English variant Got = Great Old Tyrant, though Great Old Titan can be used as well? wink.gif He is Greatest Democrat ever known, he is not so Almighty as some try to present him (in a way many common people understand that), thus making him responsible for any crime and unjustice in this world.

Posted by: Enki Jan 20, 2007, 01:25 PM

You know, Republic of People under guidance of the Republic of Heavens & Other Places. smile.gif laugh.gif

Posted by: Enki Jan 20, 2007, 01:33 PM

QUOTE(Lindsay @ Jan 20, 2007, 12:30 PM) *

Enki, et al: I trust you will understand me when ...


You know, do not put me together with “et al”. It is apt to you what you write. But I am sure that the acme of human existence cannot be shaken only because some gentlemen want to illuminate mankind in accelerated mode because they eager to see the tales of the past to be realized during their lifetime.

The Matrix is on the watch Lindsay, do not forget about that. smile.gif

Posted by: Lindsay Jan 20, 2007, 01:36 PM

Enki, I have always wondered: Why do GOP Republicans--and Democrats--pray, "Thy kingdom come..." when they say the so-called "Lord's Prayer" laugh.gif

Which brings me to ask: "God, how do you vote?" smile.gif

Posted by: Enki Jan 20, 2007, 01:43 PM

QUOTE(Joesus @ Jan 20, 2007, 10:56 AM) *

This was why Jesus and other masters didn't carry file folders, weblinks, phd certificates, bibliographies or biographies to convince the sleeping ego they were awake and that they were here to awaken the sleeping ego.


Certainly, all the books are shelved on the shelves of the Invisible College and other Invisible Institutions, Hagward included. Lidsay suggests to Xerox them and spread freely to everybody. I think it is not a good idea.

Posted by: Enki Jan 20, 2007, 01:45 PM

QUOTE(Lindsay @ Jan 20, 2007, 01:36 PM) *

Enki, I have always wondered: Why do GOP Republicans--and Democrats--pray, "Thy kingdom come..." when they say the so-called "Lord's Prayer" laugh.gif

Which brings me to ask: "God, how do you vote?" smile.gif


I think he votes as equal. Maybe counts sometimes. smile.gif

Posted by: Enki Jan 20, 2007, 01:55 PM

I suggest to discard the topic discussion. OK?

Posted by: Lindsay Jan 20, 2007, 02:08 PM

And your reason for this suggestion?

Posted by: Enki Jan 20, 2007, 02:15 PM

Common Sense Lindsay.

I am unilaterally getting off from discussions in this topic.

And I am going to sleep. smile.gif

Posted by: Lindsay Jan 20, 2007, 02:38 PM

So you, voluntarily, chose to go back into sleep--HYPNOS smile.gif. --Well!! Things get, "curiouser, and curiouser"!!!!! laugh.gif

Posted by: Joesus Jan 20, 2007, 05:56 PM

QUOTE(Enki @ Jan 20, 2007, 09:19 PM) *

QUOTE(Joesus @ Jan 20, 2007, 11:55 AM) *

God is not Democratic.


You want to say Jeosus, that the Great Old Democrat is not a Democrat, possibly you prefer German and not English variant Got = Great Old Tyrant, though Great Old Titan can be used as well? wink.gif He is Greatest Democrat ever known, he is not so Almighty as some try to present him (in a way many common people understand that), thus making him responsible for any crime and unjustice in this world.

God is not an acronym....

Posted by: Enki Jan 20, 2007, 11:26 PM

QUOTE(Joesus @ Jan 20, 2007, 05:56 PM) *

QUOTE(Enki @ Jan 20, 2007, 09:19 PM) *

QUOTE(Joesus @ Jan 20, 2007, 11:55 AM) *

God is not Democratic.


You want to say Jeosus, that the Great Old Democrat is not a Democrat, possibly you prefer German and not English variant Got = Great Old Tyrant, though Great Old Titan can be used as well? wink.gif He is Greatest Democrat ever known, he is not so Almighty as some try to present him (in a way many common people understand that), thus making him responsible for any crime and unjustice in this world.

God is not an acronym....


How do you know that it is not so, I really wonder?
He scattered his keys all around the world.
God is an amassing creature, you know.
YHVH (YHWH, YHWA, YHVA, YGVA) is also an acronym and not necessarily in Hebrew. laugh.gif
It is a cool game Joesus , you know, try to find the God, can you?
You think God does not have sense of humor?
I guess that Satan (Selfish Archaic TyrANt (TitAN) or Sensitive Archaic TitAN) has sense of humor as well, like any proper cute Demon.

Posted by: Joesus Jan 21, 2007, 10:55 AM

QUOTE
How do you know that it is not so, I really wonder?

I know why you wonder..
QUOTE
He scattered his keys all around the world.
God is an amassing creature, you know.
YHVH (YHWH, YHWA, YHVA, YGVA) is also an acronym and not necessarily in Hebrew.
It is a cool game Joesus , you know, try to find the God, can you?


When you put God into terms of gender and into objects of perception the awareness fixes itself on objects of perception when you are trying to find God.

When the mind is anchored in the absolute the objects of perception translate symbolically for the purpose of instruction to those that are searching, but God is less of an object and more of the transition between objects or the potential that lies inbetween identifications of material manifestations or meanings and beliefs.
QUOTE
You think God does not have sense of humor?
I think each individual perception creates humor from meanings of life.
QUOTE

I guess that Satan (Selfish Archaic TyrANt (TitAN) or Sensitive Archaic TitAN) has sense of humor as well, like any proper cute Demon.

Satan also is a word for the ego. Ego gives humor meaning. God is neither laughs nor cries over humanity. Being that everything is supported in freedom of choice or that will is without limits in direction or opportunity you can chain any thought you wish into reality and call it what you want.

Posted by: Enki Jan 21, 2007, 11:20 AM

QUOTE(Joesus @ Jan 21, 2007, 10:55 AM) *

QUOTE
How do you know that it is not so, I really wonder?


I know why you wonder..


Really? Quite interesting Joesus, quite interesting. May I know why? tongue.gif

QUOTE(Joesus @ Jan 21, 2007, 10:55 AM) *

QUOTE
He scattered his keys all around the world.
God is an amassing creature, you know.
YHVH (YHWH, YHWA, YHVA, YGVA) is also an acronym and not necessarily in Hebrew.
It is a cool game Joesus , you know, try to find the God, can you?


When you put God into terms of gender and into objects of perception the awareness fixes itself on objects of perception when you are trying to find God.

When the mind is anchored in the absolute the objects of perception translate symbolically for the purpose of instruction to those that are searching, but God is less of an object and more of the transition between objects or the potential that lies inbetween identifications of material manifestations or meanings and beliefs.
QUOTE
You think God does not have sense of humor?
I think each individual perception creates humor from meanings of life.


I do not put God into terms of gender neither I put him into objects of perception. I just do nothing, I just have objected your statement related with the Democracy & God in a quite amazing way.

I agree in many points with the statments of your second paragraph: "When the mind is anchored ...".
So I guess we are able to percept his sense of humor.

QUOTE(Joesus @ Jan 21, 2007, 10:55 AM) *

God is neither laughs nor cries over humanity. Being that everything is supported in freedom of choice or that will is without limits in direction or opportunity you can chain any thought you wish into reality and call it what you want.


I disagree with you, God laughs and cries over humanity from time to time. He should like to watch Disney cartoons, I am sure. Don’t you mind that I use word He and not He/She?

Even more, I guess he also drinks tea, plays into computer games and likes to eat ice-cream as well. You put God too far from humans Joesus. Not forget old Jewish wisdom: "God lives and walks among us."

I guess Satan and Others like to travel as well.

Posted by: Joesus Jan 21, 2007, 11:41 AM

QUOTE
Really? Quite interesting Joesus, quite interesting. May I know why?

Of course!

QUOTE
I just have objected your statement related with the Democracy & God in a quite amazing way.

You have objectified the statement in terms of your own individual flavor and perception. Being that god is not democratic or swayed by individual thought, in that it takes or gives more to any one idea or desire, all desires are fulfilled regardless of the terms in which they are objectified.

QUOTE
I do not put God into terms of gender neither I put him into objects of perception. I just do nothing, I just have objected your statement related with the Democracy & God in a quite amazing way.

If I choose to accept you or not then you do or you do not.

QUOTE
I disagree with you, God laughs and cries over humanity from time to time.

If I say God doesn't then God doesn't. Neither one of us is right or wrong.

Posted by: Enki Jan 21, 2007, 11:50 AM

Just look at this boy, he is a Sophist!

Your statements sound like "All is relative."

Posted by: Enki Jan 21, 2007, 11:59 AM

I will tell you Joesus one innovated cabalistic anecdote.

A Jewish rabbi teaches children the wisdom via case studies:

"So children one Great Jew -Moses said that all is from there," and points his hand at Sky,

"Another Great Jew -Solomon said that all is from here," and points his hand at his Head,

"Another Great Jew -Jesus said that all is from here," and points his hand at his Heart,

"Another Great Jew -Karl Marx said that all is from here," and points his hand at his Belly,

"Another Great Jew -Sigmund Freaud said that all is from here," and points his hand at his Reproduction organs.

But then children another Great Jew -Einstein said that All is Relative.

Let us on this funny wave close this topic.

Posted by: Joesus Jan 21, 2007, 12:59 PM

QUOTE
Just look at this boy, he is a Sophist!

It's easy to point a finger and make a claim toward anything.

It is not the same as realizing thou art that.

That not being relative, but supporting all relative ideas.

Or

Neti Neti .. Not this Not that

Posted by: Enki Jan 21, 2007, 10:48 PM

Truth somewhere in-between.

Posted by: Lindsay Jan 22, 2007, 07:18 AM

QUOTE(Enki @ Jan 21, 2007, 11:59 AM) *

I will tell you Joesus one innovated cabalistic anecdote....
another Great Jew -Einstein said that All is Relative.
When I first heard this amusing anecdote, Enki, the question addressed was: What is truth?"

Until we human beings become infallible (like the Pope?), in my humble opinion, truth is relatively absolute; and/or absolutely relative. And, relatively speaking, for me, the search is as much fun as finding it. smile.gif

=================
Okay, I say we stick with the topic on self-hypnosis, start a new one on "what is truth, whatever", or take a rest. Or, if you are curious enough you are welcome to take a look at: Evidence For God at
http://www.scienceagogo.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=17805#Post17805

It is always good to hear what others have to say.

Posted by: Enki Jan 22, 2007, 11:36 AM

Times are changing Lindsay. Different continents, different languages, truth mutates.

Posted by: Lindsay Jan 22, 2007, 09:10 PM

QUOTE(Enki @ Jan 22, 2007, 11:36 AM) *

Times are changing Lindsay. Different continents, different languages, truth mutates.
Relatively speaking, of course it does. smile.gif

Posted by: Ignorance Is Eternal Jan 23, 2007, 07:40 PM

Hello all

I hypnotised myself 3 times now using a script that I recorded myself saying. After the first two times using suggestion, I decided that I am too young to attempt to change some of the subconsious foundation I had set out to mould. So, the third time I hypnotised myself on the way to a cello recital (I usually become very, very anxious before them, and this was no exception), but this time I had set it to stop before the suggestions were proposed. I roused myself and was considerably more relaxed whilst my performance.


I find this lighter mode of hypnosis very helpful for anxiety, but I was wondering if there was a way to hypnotise myself more effectively so that I could suggest a calmer, more focused state while performing publicly.

Thanks,
Teddy.

Posted by: Lindsay Jan 24, 2007, 09:33 PM

What we say to ourselves in our inner-dialogue--taking care to avoid negative and hate-filled suggestions, which come from the negative and destructive emotions--can make all the difference.

It is, in my opinion, THE ROAD LESS TRAVELED.

Also in my opinion, we need to take the road BEST TRAVELED; it is called LOVE--that is, simply giving good will and respect to oneself and others, regardless of how we feel, emotionally.

Posted by: maximus242 Jan 26, 2007, 05:30 PM

Inner Dialogue is extremly important, it is in essence, the conscious mind.

Posted by: maximus242 Jan 26, 2007, 06:00 PM

QUOTE(Ignorance Is Eternal @ Jan 23, 2007, 08:40 PM) *

Hello all

I hypnotised myself 3 times now using a script that I recorded myself saying. After the first two times using suggestion, I decided that I am too young to attempt to change some of the subconsious foundation I had set out to mould. So, the third time I hypnotised myself on the way to a cello recital (I usually become very, very anxious before them, and this was no exception), but this time I had set it to stop before the suggestions were proposed. I roused myself and was considerably more relaxed whilst my performance.


I find this lighter mode of hypnosis very helpful for anxiety, but I was wondering if there was a way to hypnotise myself more effectively so that I could suggest a calmer, more focused state while performing publicly.

Thanks,
Teddy.


PM me the script and I will look it over, some scripts are good, some are bad.

Sounds like your just doing relaxation right now and not much hypnosis. As for relaxing before a public preformance, thats easy to do a suggestion for. Its the basics of the basics - you just anchor a suggestion along with the relaxed state.

All you have to do is hypnotise yourself and anchor something to a relaxed state but not a hypnotic one, then tada, before a preformance you will be relaxed. This is the basic fix, there is a better way where you dont feel anxious at all before any preformance, I wrote a script up for someone else on brainmeta that does this. That way you dont need to relax before every preformance because you will already be relaxed.

So many diffrent types and ways of hypnosis, but simpler and easier is always better, ive done LOTS and LOTS of self-hypnosis and I can tell you that the long ways can be good at the start but they become a pain in the ass. Why spend ten minutes doing an induction when you can spend 30 seconds.

------------Important Note from Maximus, you need to learn more about hypnosis theory, you should know that any sub-conscious changes you make can be changed back in a matter of seconds. Furthermore anchors last 3 months max, then you need to re-do it (it will probably last less than that). I seriously doubt you will be able to change the foundations of your sub-conscious mind, its hard enough for a beginner to just communicate. Seriously, dont worry about causing major changes to your sub-consious, it just aint gonna happen, takes a lot of work to accomplish something like that.---------------------------

Posted by: Lindsay Jan 26, 2007, 08:16 PM

Max, your post above reminds me of the old joke about the visitor to New York who asked someone in the lobby of his hotel--who happened to be a musician--"How do I get to Carnegie Hall?" The musician replied: "Practice. Lots of practice." smile.gif The same applies to getting the best out of working with the inner mind.

The great pianist, Rubenstein, was once asked by a reporter: "How much do you practice?" He responded: "At least three to four hours a day, everyday."

The reporter then asked: "What would happen if you missed three days?"
Rubenstein responded, "If I missed three days, my audience would notice; if I missed two days, my wife would notice, and if I missed one day, I would notice."

Yes, IMHO, our spiritual muscles need to exercised just like the physical and mental ones do.

Posted by: Enki Jan 27, 2007, 05:03 PM

QUOTE(maximus242 @ Jan 26, 2007, 06:00 PM) *

Seriously, dont worry about causing major changes to your sub-consious, it just aint gonna happen, takes a lot of work to accomplish something like that.---------------------------


Dear people who are eventually encountered with this topic!

Do not try to make self-hypnosis! Do not listen to those who advise you to use it. Do not confine your Free Will! It is very dangerous. You run danger of loosing your Free Will. It may damage your metal health. The reality is not well studied yet, there are quite many things not yet studied. Just trust your reason and your good will and apply them to regulate yourself, you also should sometimes trust Good God as well.

Remember, do not interfere into realms unknown for you, do not trust people who advise you to do so, they mislead you. Trust your common sense: do not experiment with your sub-consciousness!


Self- hypnosis is a very, very bad and dangerous thing!

If you are not a scientist in the field do not do any experiments!

Posted by: Lindsay Jan 27, 2007, 08:14 PM

Enki. I ask you, seriously :

Are you, absolutely, sure you know of which you write?

If so, please give us the concrete evidence, you have, to back up your claim. Or is it just your opinion????

Posted by: Enki Jan 28, 2007, 01:29 AM

QUOTE(Lindsay @ Jan 27, 2007, 08:14 PM) *

Enki. I ask you, seriously :

Are you, absolutely, sure you know of which you write?

If so, please give us the concrete evidence, you have, to back up your claim. Or is it just your opinion????


Any technique related with self-hypnosis, which did not pass official positive approval of scientific community world wide as a reliable and non-harmful for human mental state, cannot be recommended to common people to apply for "self-improvement". I am absolutely sure about what I write in that respect. They may test one of the recommendations and if it works they will start to trust other sources as well and will make series of experiments. Human curiosity has no limits. The consequences of those experiments are not predictable.

You know Lindsay, I have registered on this forum one day prior to the unfortunate death of the Patriarch of Alexandria to exemplify some specific aspects of the reality related with series of Unfortunate Events, but certainly not in a manner of a spider Ms. Charlotte Kovatic.

This subject is such that the "concrete evidence" provision is a rather complicated thing due to several factors. And definitely I will not provide any.

Besides I hope that my opinion will be taken for granted by respected readers. tongue.gif

Posted by: Lindsay Jan 31, 2007, 01:51 PM

More mild sarcasm, eh?

Posted by: Enki Jan 31, 2007, 02:40 PM

QUOTE(Lindsay @ Jan 31, 2007, 01:51 PM) *

More mild sarcasm, eh?


It is very sad indeed.

Posted by: maximus242 Feb 03, 2007, 05:22 PM

Enki, either your incredibly ignorant or your joking. I think this is another joke though.

Posted by: Lindsay Feb 03, 2007, 10:55 PM

Right on, Max:
Recently, I sent the following to a lot of friends and to the media:
===============================================
Does this get your attention?
http://www.hypnotictapes.com/images/Spiral-Spin-revised.swf

Some of you have heard of my interest, over the years, and the work I
have done in understanding the role of pneumatherapy--that is,
self-hypnosis without the hocus pocus-- and how it can help us develop
a positive faith.
For more information, check this out:

The forum at http://www.scienceagogo.com is interesting
http://www.scienceagogo.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=17986&page=0&PHPSESSID=511eef66025980e409b177f13ec03c7c#Post17986

POINTS TO KEEP IN MIND :

1. Before you consult a hypnotherapist, make sure it is someone with a
good reputation and, perhaps, is recommended by your family doctor, or
other trustworthy professional.

2. Some MD's do hypnotherapy. I have known several. However, it not
necessary to be an MD to be a good hypnotherapist.

3. Doctors with good bed-side manners are practicing "hypnosis"
without calling it that. So are clergy who have the ability to inspire
people to have faith in God and themselves.

4. Hypnosis is not a substitute for necessary medical help.

5. What I call pneumatherapy is
a. self-hypnosis without the hocus pocus--
b. psychotherapy--using psychology and psychiatry, and
c. somatherapy--diet, surgery, physical medicines, and the like,
all need to work integratively.
Check out http://integrativemedicine.arizona.edu/index.html
With Harvard trained, Dr. Andrew Weil
7. Pneumatherapy can help us deal with addictions, including addiction to food.
8. problems with the autoimmune system
9. Media induced fear and panic
10. prejudice and fanaticism, etc.

Beware of stage-hypnosis. It can be harmful. So can stage
"faith" healing. I have written articles, for a Toronto paper,
exposing this danger.

Posted by: Lindsay Feb 04, 2007, 07:08 PM

4 WIDELY HELD MISCONCEPTIONS
ABOUT HYPNOSIS

1. Someone with a strong mind or will power is difficult to hypnotize. This is not true. You want to enter hypnosis. A strong mind or will power will help you do whatever you want to do.

2. You are unconscious while under hypnosis. This is not true. Most people describe it as feeling extremely relaxed or half awake and half asleep. And the deepest levels as a lucid dream.

3. You are put into hypnosis. This is not true. You are guided into hypnosis. You have to help by imagining the images as well as you pleasantly can.

4. Hypnosis is a constant state. This is not true. There are times when you are more aware and times when you are less aware. This is normal.

Posted by: Enki Feb 05, 2007, 12:48 AM

QUOTE(maximus242 @ Feb 03, 2007, 05:22 PM) *

Enki, either your incredibly ignorant or your joking. I think this is another joke though.


Yes indeed, I think Max that it is quite obvious that I am incredibly ignorant.
Hope you will enjoy company of very credible and aware people.
In our times jokes are hard to be discerned.

In order not to spread ignorance among so aware people I will prefer to depart into detached transcendence and permanently press space button to skip my turn. That will be quite interesting to observe what will come out of that.

I am sorry, but I am quite busy and will not be able in coming months to visit this forum, as well as any other forum. Definitely Kids have to propel on their own.

Good bye.

Posted by: maximus242 Feb 06, 2007, 04:45 PM

Enki, its sooo hard to tell when you are joking. Maybe its just me, im trying to decern whether your mad, happy, philosophical or something inbetween. Im sorry but I honestly have a hard time telling.

Hypnosis has done more good than harm, self-hypnosis is not a danger, its black (as in what they do with hypnosis, not the color of their skin) hypnotists trying to use communication as persuasion and influence in a cult like manner.

Enki, I enjoy your opinions and I would sorely miss them, if you can spare the time to come on just one forum, do come on brainmeta.

Posted by: Lindsay Feb 07, 2007, 07:05 PM

QUOTE(maximus242 @ Feb 06, 2007, 04:45 PM) *

Enki, its sooo hard to tell when you are joking.
Max, you are SOOOOOO, right.

I also agree with you when you write: "Hypnosis has done more good than harm, self-hypnosis is not a danger...(problem occur when) hypnotists...use communication, as persuasion and influence, in a cult-like manner.

IMHO, it would be nice if we could take the monster-like word 'hypnosis' and retire it from use , if not bury it. 'Hypnosis' is the Greek for sleep. The trance experience is about waking up, fully, not about falling to sleep.

EVEN THE ONE WHO COINED THE WORD 'HYPNOSIS' TRIED TO CHANGE IT
I am sure that you are aware that this is precisely what Dr. James Braid--a British surgeon and a Scot who practiced in Manchester, England--had in mind and hoped to do. He tried, but failed, to change the word 'hypnotism' to 'monoideism'--the ability to keep ones mind focussed on one idea. Unfortunately, until now, popular usage won the day.

Posted by: Lindsay Feb 07, 2007, 09:49 PM

Dianah:As long as we keep in mind that it is all about coming AWAKE--to consciousness, I'm okay.

BTW, Dr. Franz Antoine Mesmber--he was a medical doctor--called it "animal magnetism". Those who were taught by him called it "mesmerism". Mesmer was driven out of Vienna by the religion and medical authorities--obscurants all. He took refuge in Paris and became famous when his methods, which worked for a lot of people, when, just before the French Revolution, he was investigated by a special royal
commission headed by the American ambassador to Paris, Benjamin Franklin.

The following site gives us more on the history of the concept:
http://www.danielolson.com/hypnosis/hypnosis_history.html

I am pleased with the interest there is in this subject. IMHO, it helps explain the power behind faith healing, at its best. I am not talking about the many frauds in the field. Any success they have, it seems, is purely accidental.

Keep in mind: I am not cynical about the power of a genuine and sincere faith, but faith does have its limitations, as I indicate below.

Years ago--in the 1970's--I wrote several columns, in a Toronto paper, and exposed some of the so-called "faith healers" who made fantastic claims. I followed up on people, with serious physical conditions, who claimed that they were healed at their services. Parents of a stone-deaf child---born with with no physical hearing mechanism--told me that they believed their son was "healed tonight". This and other cases I looked into proved false. A well-known Canadian journalist and author, Tom Harpur, who I know, had the same experience.

With the cooperation of a "healing team", from a local church, I actually set up an extensive experiment involving my own health problems--chronic conditions--and agreed to have the team "Pray with and for me". They assured me that if I did not have the faith, God would give me the faith I needed. "Meanwhile, our prayers will make up for any doubt you have."

The experiment went on for weeks. It did not work.

To make a long story short, quite awhile later, I had surgery, which did improve the problem, greatly. However it did not completely eliminate it. Science, too, has its limitations.

Question: If Benny Hinn, Peter Popoff, Pat Robertson and Oral Roberts, Jr., etc., have a direct line to God, how come they do not simply take this "magic" into a major hospital and empty it?

Who would waste time and money on medicare if healing was as simple as the faith healers say it is?

Posted by: correlli Apr 16, 2009, 06:01 AM

I've used hypnosis quite alot. It's helps with motivation to do things, change things, ignore things, study things , manipulate things, etc Be careful who you get your instructions from!! The best instructions would be from yourself.

Posted by: RevLG.KING Apr 16, 2009, 04:13 PM

QUOTE(Lindsay @ Feb 07, 2007, 09:49 PM) *

Dianah:As long as we keep in mind that it is all about coming AWAKE--to consciousness, I'm okay.

BTW, Dr. Franz Antoine Mesmber--he was a medical doctor--called it "animal magnetism". Those who were taught by him called it "mesmerism". Mesmer was driven out of Vienna by the religion and medical authorities--obscurants all. He took refuge in Paris and became famous when his methods, which worked for a lot of people, when, just before the French Revolution, he was investigated by a special royal
commission headed by the American ambassador to Paris, Benjamin Franklin.

The following site gives us more on the history of the concept:


I am pleased with the interest there is in this subject. IMHO, it helps explain the power behind faith healing, at its best. I am not talking about the many frauds in the field. Any success they have, it seems, is purely accidental.

Keep in mind: I am not cynical about the power of a genuine and sincere faith, but faith does have its limitations, as I indicate below.

Years ago--in the 1970's--I wrote several columns, in a Toronto paper, and exposed some of the so-called "faith healers" who made fantastic claims. I followed up on people, with serious physical conditions, who claimed that they were healed at their services. Parents of a stone-deaf child---born with with no physical hearing mechanism--told me that they believed their son was "healed tonight". This and other cases I looked into proved false. A well-known Canadian journalist and author, Tom Harpur, who I know, had the same experience.

With the cooperation of a "healing team", from a local church, I actually set up an extensive experiment involving my own health problems--chronic conditions--and agreed to have the team "Pray with and for me". They assured me that if I did not have the faith, God would give me the faith I needed. "Meanwhile, our prayers will make up for any doubt you have."

The experiment went on for weeks. It did not work.

To make a long story short, quite awhile later, I had surgery, which did improve the problem, greatly. However it did not completely eliminate it. Science, too, has its limitations.

Question: If Benny Hinn, Peter Popoff, Pat Robertson and Oral Roberts, Jr., etc., have a direct line to God, how come they do not simply take this "magic" into a major hospital and empty it?

Who would waste time and money on medicare if healing was as simple as the faith healers say it is?










Posted by: RevLG.KING Apr 16, 2009, 04:22 PM

QUOTE(correlli @ Apr 16, 2009, 06:01 AM) *

I've used hypnosis quite alot. It's helps with motivation to do things, change things, ignore things, study things , manipulate things, etc Be careful who you get your instructions from!! The best instructions would be from yourself.


As a moderator, it seems that I (Lindsay, is my first name) am able to connect within this post. I trust that I will do so honestly.

Keep in mind: I have been a student of self-hypnosis since the 1960's.

I like to call what I am doing, pneuamatherapy--the spiritual use of hypnotic technique. Please google on 'pneumatology'--a word I introduced to Wikipedia--which was the mother of psychology. If I can be of help, feel free to keep in touch.


Posted by: RevLG.KING Apr 16, 2009, 05:20 PM

BT W, be patient. I am just getting the drift of operating from another 'puter--a lap top--in another area.





Posted by: Hey Hey Apr 17, 2009, 03:05 AM

QUOTE(RevLG.KING @ Apr 17, 2009, 01:22 AM) *
I like to call what I am doing, pneuamatherapy--the spiritual use of hypnotic technique. Please google on 'pneumatology'--a word I introduced to Wikipedia--which was the mother of psychology.
Psychology has a scientific foundation nowadays, so let's not get carried away ...

Posted by: correlli Apr 17, 2009, 05:58 AM

QUOTE(RevLG.KING @ Apr 16, 2009, 04:22 PM) *



I like to call what I am doing, pneuamatherapy--the spiritual use of hypnotic technique.



I always thought God was quite a useful invention. Keeps people nice and obediant.




Posted by: Lindsay Apr 17, 2009, 10:10 AM

QUOTE(Hey Hey @ Apr 17, 2009, 03:05 AM) *
QUOTE(RevLG.KING @ Apr 17, 2009, 01:22 AM) *
I like to call what I am doing, pneuamatherapy--the spiritual use of hypnotic technique. Please, google on 'pneumatology'--a word I introduced to Wikipedia--which was the mother of psychology.
Psychology has a scientific foundation nowadays, so let's not get carried away ...
HH, can you quote me a law, or commandment which says: Thou shalt not study spirituality, including religion, the gods, God or GOD?

If psychology is a science, how come there are so many schools of psychology?

BTW, I am all in favour of evidence-based theology, psychology and pneumatology.
====================================================================
Interestingly, Wilhelm Maximilian Wundt (1832-1920) known to posterity as the “father of experimental psychology” was the son of an evangelical Lutheran minister.
QUOTE
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/wilhelm-wundt/ Wilhelm Maximilian Wundt (1832-1920) is known to posterity as the “father of experimental psychology” and the founder of the first psychology laboratory (Boring, 1950: 317, 322, 344-5).[1] From there, Wundt exerted enormous influence on the development of psychology as a discipline, ... Alan Kim http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/wilhelm-wundt/ http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/panpsychism/ Panpsychism is the doctrine that mind is a fundamental feature of the world which exists throughout the universe. Unsurprisingly, each of the key terms, “mind”, “fundamental” ... Wundt (1832-1920), another famous early psychologist who established the first psychological research laboratory, Rudolf Hermann Lotze (1817-1881), a polymath who also figured in the creation of psychology ... William Seager and Sean Allen-Hermanson http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/panpsychism/ http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/wilhelm-wundt/notes.html Notes to Wilhelm Maximilian Wundt 1. William James saw an inverse ratio between Wundt's productivity and wisdom: “He aims at being a Napoleon of the intellectual world. Unfortunately he will never have a Waterloo, for he is Napoleon without genius and with no central idea….” “Whilst ... Alan Kim http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/wilhelm-wundt/notes.html


Posted by: Lindsay Apr 17, 2009, 10:29 AM

QUOTE(correlli @ Apr 17, 2009, 05:58 AM) *
QUOTE(RevLG.KING @ Apr 16, 2009, 04:22 PM) *



I like to call what I am doing, pneuamatherapy--the spiritual use of hypnotic technique.

I always thought God was quite a useful invention. Keeps people nice and obediant.
Go ahead and expand on how you feel, theologically. Where did you learn this kind of theology?

THERE ARE RELIGIONS WITHOUT A DOGMA-BASED THEOLOGY
=======================================================
BTW, although individuals are free to think of 'God' as an absolute monarch, if they so choose, you will not find this kind of theology offered by most posters at http://www.wondercafe.ca --a site sponsored by the United Church of Canada. Agnostics and atheists are welcome, and quite few participate.
http://www.google.ca/search?q=the+united+church+of+canada&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.mandriva:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Posted by: correlli Apr 17, 2009, 01:51 PM

QUOTE(Lindsay @ Apr 17, 2009, 10:29 AM) *

QUOTE(correlli @ Apr 17, 2009, 05:58 AM) *
QUOTE(RevLG.KING @ Apr 16, 2009, 04:22 PM) *



I like to call what I am doing, pneuamatherapy--the spiritual use of hypnotic technique.

I always thought God was quite a useful invention. Keeps people nice and obediant.


Go ahead and expand on how you feel, theologically. Where did you learn this kind of theology?



I'll put it to you this way. If a person was put in an environment where they were never taught about God from birth, would that individual spontaneously start believing that there was a God?

Posted by: Hey Hey Apr 17, 2009, 03:33 PM

QUOTE(correlli @ Apr 17, 2009, 10:51 PM) *

QUOTE(Lindsay @ Apr 17, 2009, 10:29 AM) *

QUOTE(correlli @ Apr 17, 2009, 05:58 AM) *
QUOTE(RevLG.KING @ Apr 16, 2009, 04:22 PM) *



I like to call what I am doing, pneuamatherapy--the spiritual use of hypnotic technique.

I always thought God was quite a useful invention. Keeps people nice and obediant.


Go ahead and expand on how you feel, theologically. Where did you learn this kind of theology?



I'll put it to you this way. If a person was put in an environment where they were never taught about God from birth, would that individual spontaneously start believing that there was a God?
If he had hallucinations then he might become deluded enough to believe there was a god.

Posted by: Hey Hey Apr 17, 2009, 03:39 PM

QUOTE(Lindsay @ Apr 17, 2009, 07:10 PM) *
HH, can you quote me a law, or commandment which says: Thou shalt not study spirituality, including religion, the gods, God or GOD?
That's not what I said Lindsay. What I implied, was that you try and give "weight" or credence to your "pheumatology" by attempting to maintain its association with psychology:
QUOTE(RevLG.KING @ Apr 17, 2009, 01:22 AM) *
I like to call what I am doing, pneuamatherapy--the spiritual use of hypnotic technique. Please google on 'pneumatology'--a word I introduced to Wikipedia--which was the mother of psychology.
Now that might be viewed as a rather devious way of appealing to the non-initiated or novices on this forum.


Posted by: Hey Hey Apr 17, 2009, 03:43 PM

QUOTE(Lindsay @ Apr 17, 2009, 07:10 PM) *
Interestingly, Wilhelm Maximilian Wundt (1832-1920) known to posterity as the “father of experimental psychology” was the son of an evangelical Lutheran minister.
Here Lindsay it seems as though you take a reverse tack, by suggesting that Maximilian's experimental psychology has some sort of influence from his father's Lutherian ministery. So I must have become a microbiologist because my father was train driver?

Posted by: Hey Hey Apr 17, 2009, 03:53 PM

QUOTE(Lindsay @ Apr 17, 2009, 07:10 PM) *
If psychology is a science, how come there are so many schools of psychology?
I don't know your definition of school here, but schools of disciplines in universities are amalgamations of related areas, e.g. a school of science. If you mean that there are some psychologists who don't take a rigorous, empirical scientific approach, then I think you must be associating with some who are close to retirement or who, in a minority, are on the fringes of the discipline. I'm sure that every university department discovers it has has a nutcase who maintains tenure by contract but who is sidelined rather than promoted.

This is not to say that hypnosis might have a testable foundation (and of course that those abductees under the swinging watch actually did see aliens). It is not my area of expertise and I would welcome some education, supported by evidence published in peer reviewed journals.

Posted by: Lindsay Apr 17, 2009, 04:17 PM

QUOTE(Hey Hey @ Apr 17, 2009, 03:53 PM) *

... This is not to say that hypnosis might have a testable foundation (and of course that those abductees under the swinging watch actually did see aliens).

It is not my area of expertise and I would welcome some education, supported by evidence published in peer reviewed journals.


THE ART OF HYPNOSIS
Depending on one's level of interest--beginning with self-hypnosis--everyone should learn something about this art. Why do I say this? Because the ability to go into and out of the trance state is part of our human nature. It is a ubiquitous as the ability to use language.

The art--and it is an art, not a science--of hypnosis is not unlike learning to read. It is so simple that the basic technique can be taught, in five to ten minutes, over the telephone. In my opinion, every public school teacher should be taught how to do it, and it should be taught as part of the public education system, at all levels. Of course, mastery is something else. Good teachers, preachers, politicians, whatever, who inspire students to be better students are nothing more than natural-born hypnotists.

BTW, HH, in another thread, I gave my definition of spirituality. However, I do not recall getting yours.

Posted by: Lindsay Apr 18, 2009, 07:43 AM

THE ART OF THE SELF-HYPNOTIC TRANCE
===================================
As I indicated above, it is my opinion everyone should learn something about this art. Why do I say this? Because the ability to go into and out of the trance state is part of our human nature. It is as ubiquitous as the ability to use language. Like language, we are using the trance every day, for good or ill. Therefore, we had better learn how to use it creatively, or it will use us in a destructive way. Ignorance of this phenomenon is not bliss, it is dangerous.

FOR BASIC INFORMATION ON HYPNOSIS check out:
http://www.danielolson.com/hypnosis/hypnosis_history.html

Check out Dr. Milton Erickson--
http://www.google.ca/search?q=Milton+Erickson&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.mandriva:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

QUOTE
Milton H. Erickson (1902-1980). When he was alove he was generally considered to be the most important hypnotherapist. He was a psychiatrist/hypnotherapist practising in Arizona, Phoenix, USA.

He was born colour blind, and was affected by polio at the age of 19, and in the process of curing his disabled body himself by modelling how the small babies in his family began to learn to move their hands and legs, his sensory perception on the level of non-verbal communication was made extremely acute, and helped him later in inventing non-conventional "Ericksonian Hypnosis".

His hypnotic techniques and life are well documented by a number of authors, among whom J. Haley of the Palo Alto Group (the members of the Mental Research Institute in Palo Alto, California, guided by http://www.creativity.co.uk/creativity/guhen/bateson.htm) was the first person who introduced the techniques of Ericksonian Hypnosis to the world.

Erickson heavily influenced http://www.creativity.co.uk/creativity/guhen/founder.htm and http://www.creativity.co.uk/creativity/guhen/founder.htm, the co-founders of http://www.creativity.co.uk/creativity/guhen/neuro.htm. It was indeed http://www.creativity.co.uk/creativity/guhen/bateson.htm, the teacher of http://www.creativity.co.uk/creativity/guhen/founder.htm and http://www.creativity.co.uk/creativity/guhen/founder.htm, who advised them to visit Erickson, and after modelling Erickson, they published their first http://www.creativity.co.uk/creativity/guhen/neuro.htm book "The Structure of Magic I" in 1975. (Also see the page "Hypnosis".)


====================================================

http://www.creativity.co.uk/creativity/guhen/nlp.htm
======================================
The psychiatrist, the late Milton F. Erickson is known as the father of North American hypnosis. Read him and you will understand why I prefer to use pneumatherapy, not hypnotherapy.

Posted by: Hey Hey Apr 18, 2009, 09:39 AM

QUOTE(Lindsay @ Apr 18, 2009, 04:43 PM) *
you will understand why I prefer to use pneumatherapy, not hypnotherapy.
Glorified daydreaming?

Posted by: Joesus Apr 18, 2009, 09:39 AM

QUOTE(correlli @ Apr 17, 2009, 09:51 PM) *

I'll put it to you this way. If a person was put in an environment where they were never taught about God from birth, would that individual spontaneously start believing that there was a God?

If a person was never taught anything he/she would seek some understanding of his/her relationship to the world around themselves. Such an understanding comprises both the knowledge of ones Self and What the world around them is. How they both come about, what inspires one to get up and seek answers to questions rather than to act mechanically to simply eat, shit and sleep so the body can be maintained.
The order of the universe and the simple reason it does not fall apart and that we have impulses to gain understanding is because there is God.

Now God becomes an illusion or a delusion if you take a position in belief. But if thru understanding of the Self, one comes upon the discovery of a relationship that exists in the things that happen due to cause and effect. Then one begins to put away such beliefs in chaos and randomness as the very principle of the universe. The more one explores the universe and the Self, the more one understands what has collectively been experienced by those who speak of unity between the Spirit/Self and the manifest world of the body and its surroundings.

There is no coincidence that some relative meaning has been put onto the nature of life and the relationship it has with the world and the universe the world exists in.

People who limit themselves to belief are driven by superstitious fear to reject or attach themselves to certain ideas which put themselves at odds with others of belief and attachment.
Simply to find relief from the compromise of personal belief and to remove themselves from the opposing thoughts and beliefs so they can live their lives comfortably when they can't prove what life is and how it came to be becomes what has been termed survival.

It is easier to win a fight by intimidation of majority or with physical strength against the opposing person of thought than it is to actually prove the absolute nature of reality.

The motivation to seek thru beliefs and gain understanding is inherent and it comes from something deeper than what we are taught about survival. When one finds the answers it can't be contained in a word but it has been described with one such as the word God.

Unfortunately most who know of the word have no knowledge of what brought the word about. Most simply associate the word to a person or groups of persons who use the word and what they stand for in their beliefs. Wanting to protect the personal belief it becomes a personal struggle to keep the personal belief from any kind of degradation that might occur when the personal belief comes into range of the opposing belief, and so it becomes a contest of impressions based on past experience. Rarely does anyone take an objective point of view and or the time to go beyond the foolish hypnotic delusional trance of my belief and your belief.

QUOTE(Lindsay @ Apr 18, 2009, 03:43 PM) *

THE ART OF THE SELF-HYPNOTIC TRANCE
===================================
As I indicated above, it is my opinion everyone should learn something about this art. Why do I say this? Because the ability to go into and out of the trance state is part of our human nature. It is as ubiquitous as the ability to use language. Like language, we are using the trance every day, for good or ill. Therefore, we had better learn how to use it creatively, or it will use us in a destructive way. Ignorance of this phenomenon is not bliss, it is dangerous.

Altered states of consciousness such as the trance are effected by the collected surface impressions of the mind and the personal ego.
Surface impressions are beliefs or the information gleaned from hand me down ideas that begin from birth as our parents impart their idealism and beliefs upon their children. Then the children are taught to absorb more hand me down knowledge in public or private educational systems which have standards based on belief which prompts both a rating system of what is important to know and a censorship of knowledge of what shouldn't be known. After public and private education is absorbed an individual is given the impression that with the knowledge of theory and fact, of belief and opinion, one is ready to move out into the world to build on those beliefs of the past and to do so in a personal way.
Psychologically the personal is heavily influenced by the past impressions of parents and their peers.

This is the trance like state that can be used for evil or for good depending on what the current mores are concerning those ideals and their definitions.
If we use such examples as the Crucifixion of Jesus, the Crusades, The Spanish Inquisition, The current Governments of the world and how they ignore basic rights of the people we get the idea that it is by the choice of peoples and their beliefs that creates the conditions of the trance that people live in daily.

Beyond the trance is a natural state of being such as that of the innocent child. The child which is limited to the extensive exposure of the trance state of belief and opinion, (which is the trance of the ego) at its earliest age of comprehension steps out into a world expressing and feeling love, (if it has not been beaten, starved, sexually abused, or deprived of the ability to freely express and experience life from its birth).
That child steps out into a world without preconceived ideas and or notions based on the hypnotic effects of personal belief and opinion as it is suggested as the reality of life.
Such a state of mind is experienced in Yoga or Union of mind and body with the absolute, which is free of the hypnotic effects of suggestion and the past impressions of experience. In this state there is no possibility to enter into the trance like state of good or evil. It is beyond those concepts.

It is when this state of being is brought thru the trance state, to replace the trance state with this natural state of being, that one becomes attuned to the nature if the Universe. Since the nature of the Universe is neither good nor evil one removes themselves from harmful influences of the trance state and the ideals that put pressure on the psyche to behave within the confines of social mores to carry the burden of good and evil and act properly so as not to disturb the 7 billion personal opinions of what good and evil are.

Posted by: Hey Hey Apr 18, 2009, 09:52 AM

So, what does this trance do for one, that any other type of activity might not do? If it's so enlightening wouldn't it be taught in schools?

Posted by: Joesus Apr 18, 2009, 10:15 AM

QUOTE(Hey Hey @ Apr 18, 2009, 05:52 PM) *

So, what does this trance do for one, that any other type of activity might not do? If it's so enlightening wouldn't it be taught in schools?

The trance of hand me down knowledge and theory is taught in schools, by those who are not enlightened.

There is no course that I have heard of called "The meaning of life 101" that is taught in any school system.

Posted by: Hey Hey Apr 18, 2009, 10:28 AM

QUOTE(Joesus @ Apr 18, 2009, 07:15 PM) *

QUOTE(Hey Hey @ Apr 18, 2009, 05:52 PM) *

So, what does this trance do for one, that any other type of activity might not do? If it's so enlightening wouldn't it be taught in schools?

The trance of hand me down knowledge and theory is taught in schools, by those who are not enlightened.

There is no course that I have heard of called "The meaning of life 101" that is taught in any school system.
Case rested ...

Posted by: Lindsay Apr 18, 2009, 06:00 PM

QUOTE
(Lindsay @ Apr 18, 2009, 04:43 PM) *
you will understand why I prefer to use pneumatherapy, not hypnotherapy.

"Glorified daydreaming?" asks HH.

Daydreaming? Of course, in the best sense of the word.

Milton Erickson, one of the brains behind the neurolinguistic programming movement, practiced, IMO, pneumatology, not psychiatry, or psychology. His work, and the work of others before him, including Mesmer, paved the way for the latest discoveries about the brain.

NEUROPLASTICITY OF THE BRAIN

Neuroplasticity (variously referred to as brain plasticity, cortical plasticity or cortical re-mapping) refers to changes that occur in the organization of the brain as a result of experience. The coining of the term plasticity in regards to neuronal process is attributed to Polish neuroscientist Jerzy Konorski. ...

...Decades of research have now shown that substantial changes occur in the lowest neocortical processing areas, and that these changes can profoundly alter the pattern of neuronal activation in response to experience.

According to the theory of neuroplasticity, thinking, learning, and acting actually change both the brain's physical structure (anatomy) and functional organization (physiology) from top to bottom. Neuroscientists are presently engaged in a reconciliation of critical period studies demonstrating the immutability of the brain after development with the new findings on neuroplasticity, which reveal the mutability of both structural and functional aspects.

A substantial paradigm shift is now under way: Canadian psychiatrist Norman Doidge has in fact stated that neuroplasticity is "one of the most extraordinary discoveries of the twentieth century."
======================================

http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/plast.html
http://www.google.com/cse?q=neuroplasticity+of+the+brain&cx=partner-pub-7585308640139837%3Au7w28w-rx2g&hl=en-us&ie=UTF-8&rls=com.mandriva%3Aen-us%3Astart%3A2&sa=Search

Posted by: Lindsay Apr 18, 2009, 06:25 PM

HH asks

QUOTE
So, what does this trance do for one, that any other type of activity might not do?
The Greek for 'trance' is 'ecstasia'. It means the human-like ability to stand outside and observe the self.

In my opinion, animals--controlled as they are by their drives and natural instincts--and too many so-called human beings, do not have this ability. The more of it we have the more enlightenment and power we have over our limitations, our pain and suffering.

QUOTE
If it's so enlightening wouldn't it be taught in schools?

It is by wise and good teachers, and preachers--the kind who really do inspire their students to want to be self-enlightenment. I had a few. How about you?

Posted by: Joesus Apr 18, 2009, 10:54 PM

QUOTE(Lindsay @ Apr 19, 2009, 02:25 AM) *

The Greek for 'trance' is 'ecstasia'. It means the human-like ability to stand outside and observe the self.


Trance:

Origin:
1300–50; ME traunce state of extreme dread, swoon, dazed state < MF transe lit., passage (from life to death), deriv. of transir to go across, pass over < L trānsīre, equiv. to trāns- trans- + īre to go

Trance:

(Gr. ekstasis, from which the word "ecstasy" is derived) denotes the state of one who is "out of himself." Such were the trances of Peter and Paul, Acts 10:10; 11:5; 22:17, ecstasies, "a preternatural, absorbed state of mind preparing for the reception of the vision", (comp. 2 Cor. 12:1-4). In Mark 5:42 and Luke 5:26 the Greek word is rendered "astonishment," "amazement" (comp. Mark 16:8; Acts 3:10).


I doubt that the word Ekstasis was derived from the word trance or that ekstasis means trance as it was derived from transir. It would stand to reason the word transition was derived from ekstasis and the word trance derived from transir to designate a state of limbo, an inbetween state prior to that of the initiation of change.

This state of limbo as it is noted, even in regard to the preparation of vision, is not a conscious state but it is possible to link an altered state of nothingness or limbo as a stepping stone to the awareness of Self or some kind of vision that could possibly be misconstrued to a vision of Self. If Self referral is the means of identification and one had no prior experience of Self how does one know what one is witnessing in a vision?

QUOTE(Lindsay @ Apr 19, 2009, 02:25 AM) *

It is by wise and good teachers, and preachers--the kind who really do inspire their students to want to be self-enlightenment. I had a few. How about you?


It would make sense that one who would know enlightenment, to be able to inspire or lead one to enlightenment. Otherwise the discussion of enlightenment through self referral, without the experience of the Self, would be imagined. This then reduces the discussion of enlightenment to the same level of someone who speaks of God without the experience of God.

History speaks of those, who by self determination, would prescribe to the world who and what God is, to anyone who would listen to them. Leaving those listeners to again imagine what God is, by the descriptions of the imagination of another.

One knows from experience how something of reality can be described and degraded as it passes from one person to the next without direct experience. To imagine something that wasn't experienced, and to speak of an imagined experience never had, could only degrade the intellect to follow thoughts without foundation or reason. This compounded into a collective belief doesn't necessarily make something real.
The democracy of opinion doesn't often change the reality of something, any more than it did when the world believed to be flat, changed our sphere to a pancake...

Good intentions do not make for Truth. There has to be something more substantial than vague similarities derived from good intentions and belief, to make a belief into reason of absolute truth.

To say the word trance means ekstasis and that ekstasis means to witness the Self, is from this definition and example, a bit of a "preachers" stretch.

QUOTE

(Gr. ekstasis, from which the word "ecstasy" is derived) denotes the state of one who is "out of himself." Such were the trances of Peter and Paul, Acts 10:10; 11:5; 22:17

Acts 10:10-15
10 And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,

11 And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending upon him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:

12 Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.

13 And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.

14 But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.

15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.


Acts 11:5-12

5 I was in the city of Joppa praying: and in a trance I saw a vision, A certain vessel descend, as it had been a great sheet, let down from heaven by four corners; and it came even to me:

6 Upon the which when I had fastened mine eyes, I considered, and saw fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.

7 And I heard a voice saying unto me, Arise, Peter; slay and eat.

8 But I said, Not so, Lord: for nothing common or unclean hath at any time entered into my mouth.

9 But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

10 And this was done three times: and all were drawn up again into heaven.

11 And, behold, immediately there were three men already come unto the house where I was, sent from Caesarea unto me.

12 And the Spirit bade me go with them, nothing doubting. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered into the man's house:


Acts 22:17-23
17 And it came to pass, that, when I was come again to Jerusalem, even while I prayed in the temple, I was in a trance;

18 And saw him saying unto me, Make haste, and get thee quickly out of Jerusalem: for they will not receive thy testimony concerning me.

19 And I said, Lord, they know that I imprisoned and beat in every synagogue them that believed on thee:

20 And when the blood of thy martyr Stephen was shed, I also was standing by, and consenting unto his death, and kept the raiment of them that slew him.

21 And he said unto me, Depart: for I will send thee far hence unto the Gentiles.

22 And they gave him audience unto this word, and then lifted up their voices, and said, Away with such a fellow from the earth: for it is not fit that he should live.

23 And as they cried out, and cast off their clothes, and threw dust into the air,


QUOTE
ecstasies, "a preternatural, absorbed state of mind preparing for the reception of the vision", (comp. 2 Cor. 12:1-4).

preternatural
preâ‹…terâ‹…natâ‹…uâ‹…ral
   /ˌpritərˈnætʃərəl, -ˈnætʃrəl/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [pree-ter-nach-er-uhl, -nach-ruhl] Show IPA
–adjective
1. out of the ordinary course of nature; exceptional or abnormal: preternatural powers.
2. outside of nature; supernatural.
Origin:
1570–80; < ML praeternātūrālis, adj. based on L phrase praeter nātūram beyond nature. See preter-, natural

Related forms:
pre⋅ter⋅nat⋅u⋅ral⋅ism, pre⋅ter⋅nat⋅u⋅ral⋅i⋅ty  /ˌpritərˌnætʃəˈrælɪti/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [pree-ter-nach-uh-ral-i-tee] Show IPA , pre⋅ter⋅nat⋅u⋅ral⋅ness, noun
preâ‹…terâ‹…natâ‹…uâ‹…ralâ‹…ly, adverb

Synonyms:
1. unusual, extraordinary, unnatural. See miraculous.


2 Cor.12:
1 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.

2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)

4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

QUOTE

In Mark 5:42 and Luke 5:26 the Greek word is rendered "astonishment," "amazement" (comp. Mark 16:8; Acts 3:10).

Mark5:
39 And when he was come in, he saith unto them, Why make ye this ado, and weep? the damsel is not dead, but sleepeth.

40 And they laughed him to scorn. But when he had put them all out, he taketh the father and the mother of the damsel, and them that were with him, and entereth in where the damsel was lying.

41 And he took the damsel by the hand, and said unto her, Talitha cumi; which is, being interpreted, Damsel, I say unto thee, arise.
42 And straightway the damsel arose, and walked; for she was of the age of twelve years. And they were astonished with a great astonishment.

-------
In the simple analysis, the use of words translated thru belief in the varying degrees of conscious awareness, in association to the original language and its intent, is derived from conjecture when it is not expressed from direct experience.

The Greek, translated from Aramaic, seeks to simplify and extend words in the Aramaic that have no greek translation, to be translated into Greek, so as to give meaning to the believed intentions of expression of what was written originally in the Aramaic.
Similar to this, is the liberal degradation of Eastern scripture as it is translated from Sanskrit to English or some other language.
A single Sanskrit word can have ten different meanings, and it is known for its meaning by how it is used within the sentence and the ability to cognise the experience of its author.
Someone who translates words only by definition using a dictionary, ends up getting something less than what is real or intended.

To gain a clear example we can use a computer generated language translator to translate the 1st part of this post.

The Greek for 'trance' is 'ecstasia'. It means the human-like ability to stand outside and observe the self.

Run through a computer translator program it looks like this when translated into Spanish: (http://translation2.paralink.com/)
El griego para 'el trance' es 'ecstasia'. Esto significa la capacidad parecida a un humano de estar de pie fuera y observar el mí.

Re-translated, back from this Spanish translation into the original English by the very same program that translated the English to Spanish, it comes out to be:
The Greek for ' the situation ' is 'ecstasia'. This means the aptitude similar to a human being to be standing up out and to observe me. This is what happens when there is no consciousness behind the translation.
Being that enlightenment points toward a degree of consciousness, it stands to reason that to speak of advanced consciousness, one would have to have attained a degree of conscious awareness, otherwise all language in reference to enlightenment comes out similar to the computer translation used in the above example.

Such has been the fate of the original intent of scripture in the English derivatives of the Bible when it is translated from Aramaic to Greek, then from Greek to German and from German to English by those who did not know the Original language and how it was used, or who do not know the content of the Original Bible or know and experience the consciousness from which it was dictated.

There are lots of people who take words out of the bible from the Aramaic or the Greek and build off of those words without really knowing the content of the message. This is what Preachers do when they preach to their congregation of God without knowing God other than through belief and opinion. Regardless of how great their intentions are, they build stories from their imaginations of what God is and what God intends for mankind. This is what Jesus often commented on regarding the authority of the Pharisees being no less than delusional. Regardless of their delusion they could not change because they had invested all of their energies to their beliefs. To deny their belief and render it fantasy would be to accept the idea they had wasted their lives in false pursuit of knowledge and authority. You can't teach an old dog new tricks, because the dog has invested itself in what it knows and often dies when what it knows is rendered invalid. It is the ego that kills the dog.

If God was a body, religion and belief are like the feet. The feet carry the body, but without the mind to give it direction the feet move toward a destination unknown.
The mind is like the potential of the un-manifest. When it is clear and not clouded over by beliefs and superstition it produces clear direction as inspiration, and is an abundance of potential which expands experience upon experience rather than reducing it to finite egocentric projections of unconscious thought streams.

When belief gets in the way, the mind makes limited use of the senses of perception and filters all through the memories of the past, and then superimposes it upon potential, reducing it to what was, rather than what is or could be.
Leaving one in a trance like state of self(ego)hypnosis, unconsciously separated from the present moment or the Now.

Posted by: Lindsay Apr 19, 2009, 02:14 PM

As I said

QUOTE
The Greek for the 'trance' state is 'ecstasia'. It means the human-like ability to stand outside and observe the self.


I forgot to mention: I was speaking of New Testament Greek. See Acts 10:10, and 11:5. Also 22:17, where Paul speaks of being in a state of ecstasy (trance). Without using the word orama (vision) he describes a vision. This vision led him to take the message, not just to Jerusalem, but to the Gentiles. Like Jesus, Paul was a universalist.

Read the story. Following the advice of Paul, it was Peter's ability to stand back and look at the situation that made him change is mind. He stopped being a bigot and became a universalist, like Jesus who had a world vision of what could be.

The interlinear Greek/English text that I have translates Acts 11:5:
kai ... eidon ... en ... estasei ...................................orama ---
and .. I saw ... in ... a trance (a state of ecstasy) a vision (orama)

Posted by: Joesus Apr 19, 2009, 07:17 PM

QUOTE(Lindsay @ Apr 19, 2009, 10:14 PM) *

As I said
QUOTE
The Greek for 'trance' is 'ecstasia'. It means the human-like ability to stand outside and observe the self.

I forgot to mention: I was speaking of New Testament Greek. See Acts 10:10, and 11:5.
Read the story. Following the advice of Paul, it was Peter's ability to stand back and look at the situation that made him change is mind. He stopped being a bigot and became a universalist, like Jesus who had a world vision of what could be.


http://www.ntgreek.org/learn_nt_greek/meaning_vs_translation.htm

From the Aramaic translation of Acts 10:
10. And he became hungry and wished to eat. And while he thought* of what to eat, a wonder came over him.
*10:10 Lit. Ar. idiomatic expression: "As these gained on him."

Acts 11:
5. "While I prayed, I saw in a vision a tray that resembled a [table] cloth, tied by four corners, and lowered from heaven and coming down to me.

Greek NT(Scrivener-1894)
Acts 10:10 egeneto de prospeinoV kai hqelen geusasqai paraskeuazontwn de ekeinwn epepesen ep auton ekstasiV

From a Greek-English dictionary
έκσταση= ekstasi = ecstasy, rapture

English to Greek Dictionary
trance = ύπνωση, έκσταση ypnosi, ekstasi

Greek to English
ύπνωση = ypnosi = hypnosis

The word ekstasiv can be translated into exstacy and rapture. Trance then can be translated from English into ekstasi when using a dictionary and ypnosi meaning hypnosis which is different than the meaning of ecstasy or rapture in English.

ecâ‹…staâ‹…sy
   /ˈɛkstəsi/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ek-stuh-see] Show IPA
–noun, plural -sies.
1. rapturous delight.
2. an overpowering emotion or exaltation; a state of sudden, intense feeling.
3. the frenzy of poetic inspiration.
4. mental transport or rapture from the contemplation of divine things.
Origin:
1350–1400; ME extasie < MF < ML extasis < Gk ékstasis displacement, trance, equiv. to ek- ec- + stásis stasis

Synonyms:
2. delight, bliss, elation. Ecstasy, rapture, transport, exaltation share a sense of being taken or moved out of one's self or one's normal state, and entering a state of intensified or heightened feeling. Ecstasy suggests an intensification of emotion so powerful as to produce a trancelike dissociation from all but the single overpowering feeling: an ecstasy of rage, grief, love. Rapture shares the power of ecstasy but most often refers to an elevated sensation of bliss or delight, either carnal or spiritual: the rapture of first love. Transport, somewhat less extreme than either ecstasy or rapture, implies a strength of feeling that results in expression of some kind: They jumped up and down in a transport of delight. Exaltation refers to a heady sense of personal well-being so powerful that one is lifted above normal emotional levels and above normal people: wild exaltation at having finally broken the record.

rapâ‹…ture
   /ˈræptʃər/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [rap-cher] Show IPA noun, verb -tured, -tur⋅ing.
–noun
1. ecstatic joy or delight; joyful ecstasy.
2. Often, raptures. an utterance or expression of ecstatic delight.
3. the carrying of a person to another place or sphere of existence.
4. the Rapture, Theology . the experience, anticipated by some fundamentalist Christians, of meeting Christ midway in the air upon his return to earth.
5. Archaic . the act of carrying off.
–verb (used with object)
6. to enrapture.
Origin:
1590–1600; rapt + -ure

Related forms:
rapâ‹…tureâ‹…less, adjective

Synonyms:
1. bliss, beatitude; transport, exaltation. See ecstasy.


hypâ‹…noâ‹…sis
   /hɪpˈnoʊsɪs/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [hip-noh-sis] Show IPA
–noun, plural -ses  /-siz/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [-seez] Show IPA .
1. an artificially induced trance state resembling sleep, characterized by heightened susceptibility to suggestion.
2. hypnotism.
Origin:
1875–80; hypn(otic) + -osis


It would be beneficial to become familiar with the context of the teachings of Jesus that the authors of the Bible attempt to glorify. That can't be done without seeking more on the Teachings of Jesus outside of what is solely contained in the few pages of the Bible. Even those philosophers and advocates of Bible study spend time learning of the history of Jesus and the policies of the land to gain a better understanding of what was intended within the scripture.
Obviously with the many varying beliefs that produce different religions thru the insights and visions of the meditative state such as those described in the above scripture, must include those of Buddha or even Joseph Smith who founded the Mormon teachings. All have a personal tale to tell, and those who are amazed by the amazed in amazement tend to come up with some amazing ideas about what is the Truth. huh.gif

The original Teachings were plagued with the inadequacies of translating words and the descriptions of enlightenment that Jesus was experiencing. The selection committees who were deciding what was relevant to the teaching didn't include all scripture which possibly became more evident to those other than the scholars of spiritual teachings when the Gospel of Thomas was becoming popular. There were those who wanted to add it to the bibles dialogue, and to the Churches that wanted to deny its relevance and authenticity and it added to the drama and the religious belief.

King James didn't do any great service to the Bible either, when he decided to edit it again with the thought that dead authors could be easily replaced by someone who was alive to give greater credit to his Authority using the Bible to serve his own purposes.

I think for anyone who studies both the Eastern and Western philosophies and commits themselves to theosophic discovery it becomes obvious that Jesus wasn't Teaching Hypnosis as we generally define hypnosis to be.

I can understand how someone can call self reflection self hypnosis, but a meditative state is not structured around the introduction of suggestions from the surface of the mind to uncover what is under its already crowded layers of impressions.

If meditation, or prayer, or self hypnosis, uses a thought to direct the mind inward to become more conscious, it is not a state of hypnosis or a trance that one achieves to expand the conscious mind into greater awareness. One does not necessarily forget the past but rather puts it into perspective, once one gains a greater understanding of ones self and how one limits ones self by belief and delusion created thru superstition.
No one can talk themselves into enlightenment. One can gain a greater experience of themselves and move deeper into the experience revealing more and more of ones Self. It is difficult to imagine from the surface of the mind what that more is if you have not experienced it before.

The premise of the Teachings of Jesus is that nothing is new in the "Experience of God" or the "Self". It simply has been ignored thru the application of limited ideas forced into belief from external influences beginning with the parents and the social mores of society. One does not have to suggest or force another idea into the mind to become aware of the Self but rather to still the mind so that it has a chance to become familiar with what was real before all of the stuff society piled on top of it, after the physical birth.

Visions are something that everyone has. They come in dreams, in Peak Experiences described by Abraham Maslow such as when you are standing on top of a mountain or standing at the shore of the Ocean or even during a runners high while jogging. Visions can give one insight towards the truth as it was before the ego became stiff with limitation and belief in the meatsack as the center of all knowledge of reality.
Visions can give one an an alternate viewpoint but not the necessary choice to follow one idea or another. That desire comes from a greater thought. A thought of something greater than what one wants to give up.
It has to exist in order for it to be realized and so those who have realized it stand as the example for those who are thinking about it.


Posted by: correlli Apr 28, 2009, 01:25 AM

QUOTE(Hey Hey @ Apr 17, 2009, 03:33 PM) *

QUOTE(correlli @ Apr 17, 2009, 10:51 PM) *

QUOTE(Lindsay @ Apr 17, 2009, 10:29 AM) *

QUOTE(correlli @ Apr 17, 2009, 05:58 AM) *
QUOTE(RevLG.KING @ Apr 16, 2009, 04:22 PM) *



I like to call what I am doing, pneuamatherapy--the spiritual use of hypnotic technique.

I always thought God was quite a useful invention. Keeps people nice and obediant.


Go ahead and expand on how you feel, theologically. Where did you learn this kind of theology?



I'll put it to you this way. If a person was put in an environment where they were never taught about God from birth, would that individual spontaneously start believing that there was a God?
If he had hallucinations then he might become deluded enough to believe there was a god.


The test subject would not have access to stimulates of any kind.

Posted by: circastes Dec 17, 2009, 01:07 AM

Check out Dick Sutphen. If you're really keen and know what Soulseek is, you'll have plently of success there.

Posted by: Hey Hey Dec 17, 2009, 06:06 AM

QUOTE(correlli @ Apr 28, 2009, 09:25 AM) *

QUOTE(Hey Hey @ Apr 17, 2009, 03:33 PM) *

QUOTE(correlli @ Apr 17, 2009, 10:51 PM) *

QUOTE(Lindsay @ Apr 17, 2009, 10:29 AM) *

QUOTE(correlli @ Apr 17, 2009, 05:58 AM) *
QUOTE(RevLG.KING @ Apr 16, 2009, 04:22 PM) *



I like to call what I am doing, pneuamatherapy--the spiritual use of hypnotic technique.

I always thought God was quite a useful invention. Keeps people nice and obediant.


Go ahead and expand on how you feel, theologically. Where did you learn this kind of theology?



I'll put it to you this way. If a person was put in an environment where they were never taught about God from birth, would that individual spontaneously start believing that there was a God?
If he had hallucinations then he might become deluded enough to believe there was a god.


The test subject would not have access to stimulates of any kind.
No neurotransmiters or hormones allowed then? So one of the conditions of trying out is to be dead?!

Posted by: maximus242 Dec 17, 2009, 04:29 PM

lol I think he meant stimulants, as in psychostimulants aka drugs.

Posted by: Hey Hey Dec 17, 2009, 04:55 PM

QUOTE(maximus242 @ Dec 18, 2009, 12:29 AM) *

lol I think he meant stimulants, as in psychostimulants aka drugs.
Just keeping him on his toes! wink.gif

Powered by
© Invision Power Services